The Welfare Cattle Empire That Controls Your Public Lands: article

[jkoehle1]

Simple economics, you left out the one of the reasons part of my quote. There are a lot of other reasons, Drought is a big one, but less public grazing is also a reason, likely a small one, but still one of the reasons.

I agree - its a very small reason in terms of public grazing.

 

[KurtR]

All over the country where deer dogging is allowed. They trespass on everyone's land because their "dogs can't read property lines and no trespassing signs". Jerks

What states in the west allow that? If it’s east of the Mississippi I don’t care

 

[Sandhills]

Keep in mind, my comments are based on my experience with grazing in the mostly arid, western states. I understand the history of homesteading and the way it shaped grazing and land ownership through history . That’s why I’m saying, why keep grazing very marginal ground ? If it was worth grazing, it would’ve been homesteaded or bought up at some point. Grazing marginal ground has multiple problems. It’s risky for the ranchers, takes forage from wildlife that may already be living on the edge of survival , etc. Just saying, it doesn’t seem to be the “ best, highest use” of the land.

As far as my comment about the fire risk reduction: you’re right that it can help reduce fuels on rangeland ( although there is the issue with grazing promoting the spread of cheatgrass and potentially increasing potential for fire and/or the burn rate).

When I said that it’s a myth that grazing prevents fires, I was speaking more about forest fires, for which grazing does very little to nothing to prevent or reduce the intensity of these fires. Grazing doesn’t reduce the woody fuels that exist in the forest. Grazing the grasses and understory just isn’t enough unless maybe if it’s strategically, intentionally overgrazed to create a fire break of some kind in a targeted area...

My mom dad grew up in the Central Valley of California, on the edge of the coast range. He said all the ranchers summer ranged their cows in the high country and brought em down to the foothills and valley floor in the fall. The last ranch out would give the cowboys boxes of stick matches and they'd toss em over their shoulders lit as they trailed cows out. There was little manzanita or other brush back in those days. But lots of grass and lots of deer.

 

[KenLee]

What states in the west allow that? If it’s east of the Mississippi I don’t care

I don't know, cause if its west of Mississippi, I don't care.
Edit: a 5 minute Google showed deer doggin in north and south Mississippi.

 

[AHayes111]

I agree - its a very small reason in terms of public grazing.

I do think the ultra wealthy buying up ranches is starting to have a bigger effect. Many of these new owners are not that interested in cows. They for the most part are stocking at a lower rate if they have cows at all. Also we have taken quite a bit of ranch land and turned it into housing and ranchetts over the years,

 

[AHayes111]

Assuming you’re talking about region 7… I’d have to say correlation doesn’t equal causation. The deer herd in 7 has declined over 38% in the last 10 years. I’m sure that’s not because they’re grazing it less but probably explains why you’re subjectively seeing better habitat with less deer. It’s also supposedly receding from an “artificial high” prior to this 10 year period…

I probability worded my post poorly if you thought that I think the reduction in cattle on the Custer is the reason for the decline in mule deer. All I would say is that removing the cow is not going to bring mule deer back.
The decline of mule deer has been happening for a long time. I would say that it has been declining since the 80's. My father would say we have been declining since the 60's and my recently passed away 93 year old neighbor would argue the 50's were even better. I would gladly go back and hunt the poorest of years in the 80's or 90's over the best years of the last 10.

 

[KsRancher]

I do think the ultra wealthy buying up ranches is starting to have a bigger effect. Many of these new owners are not that interested in cows. They for the most part are stocking at a lower rate if they have cows at all. Also we have taken quite a bit of ranch land and turned it into housing and ranchetts over the years,

That is becoming a pretty big issue in my area. There are 10's of thousands of acres that are being bought for deer hunting and not a single hoof allowed on it. I am not talking small tracts either. The amount of 640-1800 pieces that hasn't had cattle in years would blow your mind. They wont burn, spray, mow or anything. Those pastures are turning into cedar choked, sand plum and sumac pieces. When a fire does get into one of them it absolutely torches it with all the fuel.

There was a lot more deer here when there wasn't a feeder every 80acres and cattle on it.

 

[KurtR]

I don't know, cause if its west of Mississippi, I don't care.
Edit: a 5 minute Google showed deer doggin in north and south Mississippi.

River bro river. So why are you on a thread about cattle on public land WEST of the Mississippi if you don’t care……