The Welfare Cattle Empire That Controls Your Public Lands: article

[S.Clancy]

So, you are saying that herds of bison would be good on marginal public land?

I'm saying grazing is needed in those areas, like all of MT.

 

[ThorM465]

Beef is the key to the future of our people. The difference between a peasant and aristocrat is and always has been diet. That's the truth they don't teach you in school. Unless you want your children to be peasants, we need cheaper beef. Let em graze!

That doesn't even begin to get into the wildfire preventative that cattle provide by clearing the under brush.

 

[AHayes111]

So, you are saying that herds of bison would be good on marginal public land?

Bison grazing on public land is only going to work in very limited places.
This is why. The bison herds and the conditions necessary no longer exist and will never exist again. The Bison herds of 200 years ago ranged over thousands of square miles in herds that numbered in the thousands if not tens of thousands. They would graze a place hard and then move on, it would be months maybe even years. This gave the grass a chance to recover and this grazing what the western grasses evolved under. You start confining bison to relativity tiny range for year long grazing and they are going to be nearly as damaging as the cattle of a 100 years ago. Just look at the damage in the Lamar Valley. Try to use bison today to graze the land and you are going to have move them around just like the cattle need to be. The public is not going to do this and the fencing required to do it effectively will be a disaster for other wildlife.

 

[Coyote Commander]

I never claimed vast experience in western land management or livestock production. I have just driven through the West, hiked, and hunted it enough to apply my Eastern farmer’s eyes to the situation and form an opinion on it. I’ve seen the overgrazed disaster that is Montana public land by late October. There’s a world of difference between ranching in good areas on private land - like Texas, Nebraska, and Kansas - and ranching on these marginal public land areas. Or between running a cow-calf operation on private land in the Virginia mountains versus doing the same on marginal public land out West.

Given that, I would rather that there was no cattle grazing on marginal public land. I’d like to see that marginal public land used as public recreation land for hiking, fishing, hunting, etc. I’d use funds from those uses to maintain water sources for wildlife in areas where people are currently maintaining water for cattle.

Not claiming to be an expert but hey, you drove through the state and seen little snap shots of it. Which is enough to expound your vast wealth of knowledge on the subject.

Kind of reminds me of a Californian or Floridian preaching to us about wolves.

Gotta love the internet!


But at least you admit you’d rather see that land sit completely idle and only be used for “recreation”.

Well, as one who lives here year round and has a little background in actual western land management (a little), I can tell you if you got your wish, you’d probably end up regretting it. There is quite a bit of benefit to wildlife on these lands from RESPONSIBLE grazing programs.

 

[AHayes111]

For sure. What happens - after that happens?

I cant iimagine a private land owner not putting up with that kind of damage. And the public shouldnt have to either.

Free stuff to special interest is always justified like this. What aboutism.

I think you miss read what I was writing. I was talking about bulls not total cattle. When you get too many bulls at one water spot and not enough at another, cows at the water were there are too few bulls don't get bread timely and bulls at the water were there are too many bulls do too much fighting and end up hurt. Just one of the hidden costs of grazing public land.

 

[Coyote Commander]

So, you are saying that herds of bison would be good on marginal public land?

Bison don’t graze anything like beef.

You’re complaining about 20-40 acre AUMs for beef, double that for a bison!

They wreck as much as they eat.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Bison grazing on public land is only going to work in very limited places.
This is why. The bison herds and the conditions necessary no longer exist and will never exist again. The Bison herds of 200 years ago ranged over thousands of square miles in herds that numbered in the thousands if not tens of thousands. They would graze a place hard and then move on, it would be months maybe even years. This gave the grass a chance to recover and this grazing the western grasses evolved under. You start confining bison to relativity tiny range for year long grazing and they are going to be nearly as damaging as the cattle of a 100 years ago. Just look at the damage in the Lamar Valley. Try to use bison today to graze the land and you are going to have move them around just like the cattle need to be. The public is not going to do this and the fencing required to do it effectively will be a disaster for other wildlife.

Yes, very valid points. That’s why my post about bison had the . A large expanse of open range bison is still a nice fantasy…

 

[jkoehle1]

Just one of the hidden costs of grazing public land.

Is that untrue on state land?

 

[KurtR]

So, you are saying that herds of bison would be good on marginal public land?

The worst ground out here is the buffalo ranches. Unless you have half mill plus acres to rotate them they mow it down like sheep.

 

[jkoehle1]

There is quite a bit of benefit to wildlife on these lands from RESPONSIBLE grazing programs.

Im curious - what do you think the percentage of "responsible" management occurs - especially in a dry year?

What happens to the irresponsible operators?

 

[AHayes111]

Is that untrue on state land?

probably depends on the state land, most state land I am familiar with are in much smaller parcels, so usually not as big of an issue.

 

[KurtR]

Im curious - what do you think the percentage of "responsible" management occurs - especially in a dry year?

What happens to the irresponsible operators?

On public land it should be 100% what are we paying blm employees for if they are not enforcing policies?

On private land they either have hay or they sell or find pasture to rent or graze it to the ground and hope for a wet spring and then sell

 

[jkoehle1]

On public land it should be 100% what are we paying blm employees for if they are not enforcing policies?

A decade after Bunkerville standoff, Bundy cattle roam free

Ten years after the weeklong confrontation, the federal government faces paralysis over how to oversee a desert ecosystem.

www.eenews.net

Seemingly no

 

[KurtR]

A decade after Bunkerville standoff, Bundy cattle roam free

Ten years after the weeklong confrontation, the federal government faces paralysis over how to oversee a desert ecosystem.

www.eenews.net

Seemingly no

Look at that the federal govt failing on multiple fronts

 

[Gman12]

Lots of ranches own land that is checker boarded with BLM. The private ground might be in the valleys and the mountainsides or ridges being BLM. Ranching and farming is a hard and tough way of making a living. I say leave them alone and let them do their thing. Afterall, most of us like beef and we depend on ranchers and farmers to feed us every day.

 

[Sandhills]

The worst ground out here is the buffalo ranches. Unless you have half mill plus acres to rotate them they mow it down like sheep

Buffalo and horses are practically sheep.