The Shoot2hunt Podcast

[Formidilosus]

Except for the ability to be dropped/

Accidentally dropping a mag from well design DBM system is a red herring- it simply is not a thing.
Stupid, poorly designed systems, sure. Lots of chassis and PRS bottom metal and mag latches are too long. However those aren’t field systems anymore than a 60x bench rest scopes are. The entire world is dominated by DBM’s and yet magazines aren’t littering the ground.
In any case, spare magazines are apart of the system and should be carried.

lost/

How do you lose a magazine? Do you also lose the ammunition?

Why is that people don’t “lose” pistol or AR magazines, but bolt action mags are some miracle smoke that just disappears?

forgotten.

Forgetting a magazine is just as amateur as forgetting the ammo- again, a red herring.

 

[JF_Idaho]

I will say, you don't really hear of anyone taking a rifle with a magazine and "upgrading" it to a bdl.

I just prefer bdl or a flush fit magazine.

 

[EcoastDG]

I used to hunt with a rifle that had a hinge plate. The location I hunted required me to unload while walking through a certain area. Trying to unload and reload that rifle in subzero temps while wearing/not wearing gloves and inevitably dropping rounds in the snow made me switch to a magazine fed rifle. It was so easy to just drop the mag, put it in my bino pouch for a few miles.

 

[tpicou]

BDL’s and ADL’s. Good DBM’s are more reliable (higher mean rounds between stoppages- MRBS),

What data are you referencing here? Rifle, cartridge, etc.

Edit: There are a ton of reasons to use a DBM, but all else being equal, a detachable feature introduces an additional tolerance into a system.

 

[JDBAK]

Accidentally dropping a mag from well design DBM system is a red herring- it simply is not a thing.
Stupid, poorly designed systems, sure. Lots of chassis and PRS bottom metal and mag latches are too long. However those aren’t field systems anymore than a 60x bench rest scopes are. The entire world is dominated by DBM’s and yet magazines aren’t littering the ground.
In any case, spare magazines are apart of the system and should be carried.




How do you lose a magazine? Do you also lose the ammunition?

Why is that people don’t “lose” pistol or AR magazines, but bolt action mags are some miracle smoke that just disappears?






Forgetting a magazine is just as amateur as forgetting the ammo- again, a red herring.

I’ve had my Tikka CTR mag dislodge a few times in heavy brush. Finally lost one. Pretty frustrating.
It’s a fairly low profile release latch, but in that thick of brush, strapped to my gun beater it happens.

Since then I bought an MDT AICS pattern polymer mag for hunting.
It’s way more secure.

 

[Castle Rock]

Since then I bought an MDT AICS pattern polymer mag for hunting.
It’s way more secure.

Am I reading that right that you use the MDT mag in the CTR?

 

[timbernomad]

At this point I wouldn't buy a bolt action rifle that wasn't magazine fed. A decade ago when I first got into hunting, I was convinced BDL was the way to go. The years between have changed that opinion.

 

[JDBAK]

Am I reading that right that you use the MDT mag in the CTR?

Correct.
It’s a VERY tight fit with MDT polymer, but it does work.
I read about it first on here.
I think the magazine could be modified, or the CTR bottom metal modified to more easily accept both AICS and CTR mags.

Right now it works with both (unmodified) but probably couldn’t get the MDT mag out if my hands were cold.

 

[Chris_in_Idaho]

Accidentally dropping a mag from well design DBM system is a red herring- it simply is not a thing.
Stupid, poorly designed systems, sure. Lots of chassis and PRS bottom metal and mag latches are too long. However those aren’t field systems anymore than a 60x bench rest scopes are. The entire world is dominated by DBM’s and yet magazines aren’t littering the ground.
In any case, spare magazines are apart of the system and should be carried.




How do you lose a magazine? Do you also lose the ammunition?

Why is that people don’t “lose” pistol or AR magazines, but bolt action mags are some miracle smoke that just disappears?






Forgetting a magazine is just as amateur as forgetting the ammo- again, a red herring.

I'm not specifically referring to magazines popping out inadvertently, though as you pointed out there are some stupid, poorly designed systems that have that problem. I mean people fumble things and they get lost in powdery snow. I do quite a bit of work via snowmobile most winters (didn't get much winter this year) and every outing someone looses a scrench or a file, not to mention hardware if we're hanging signs. Heck I've dropped my keys just getting out of the truck and had to sift for them. Shit happens.

As to your Glock and AR mag question, are you claiming nobody has ever lost a magazine from their Glock or AR? That's ludicrous. I guarantee more Glock mags have been lost in history than revolver cylinders, and more AR mags have been lost than floorplates or fixed internal box magazines.

Actually now that I think about it when I first started carrying years ago I had an XDS in a crossbreed style holster (different brand) and the kydex didn't cover the opposite side of the ambi mag release. It was stupid. I had dining chairs, work benches and kitchen counters eject my magazine on more than one occasion.

I haven't had a lot of problems with my revolvers, tube fed lever actions, tube fed shotguns, or fixed magazine bolt actions, nor have I seen other people have many mag related issues with them (unless you count 303 rims in Enfields... which are actually DBMs...). But I have been witness at public ranges in the pre season sight in rush to people showing up and saying "I could have sworn the mag should have been in the case." I also vaguely remember as a kid showing up to a range with no mag for my 10/22 once and single feeding it.

I guess you can name call me as amateurish, and that's probably fair, but it doesn't change the facts.

Didn't Jake or his son walk away from a pair of Swarovski binos on the mountain or something like that in one of the early podcasts? I guess Jake's amateurish too.

I bet I can even find an example in this very thread:

Pretty funny not so funny story about losing your mags...I came across a guy in the mtns of idaho who traveled a long ways just to some how drop his mag in the snow.. he was on his hands and knees sifting through the snow all along his back trail.. it was after dark so I couldn't tell if he was crying or not.

Every decision is a compromise and for a fighting weapon the need for firepower obviously outweighs the possibility of losing a magazine. But for a big game rifle, there's no need for high volume firepower. All else being equal my preference would be for all essential components of my hunting rifle to be attached to my hunting rifle. It's not a hill I'm going to die on as evidenced by the Tikka I recently bought, but it would be my preference.

You might decide that the benefits of a DBM outweigh the risk of losing the mag by 1,000,000:1 and in your opinion only idiots like me would ever consider an integral magazine, and that's fine.
But flatly stating that there's not a single function in which a DBM does not outperform an integral mag isn't true. A detachable mag can become separated from the rifle, however unlikely or amateurish that may be, while an integral mag cannot.

Now I'm off to listen to Tuesday's podcast to learn what else I'm an idiot about...

 

[9.3koolaid]

I brought this up mostly to poke fun at the owner of UM not knowing how to operate a bdl. There's nothing worse than a poorly feeding bdl, can brick the entire rifle. If you have a faulty magazine they're easily and quickly replaced.

Random aside, anyone know if aw mags can be topped off in the gun? I know they're double stack/double feed...

 

[Elkangle]

Hey while we are arguing over dbms can we get unknown to do a batch of bright orange or red mags ?

 

[BULLBLASTER]

Random aside, anyone know if aw mags can be topped off in the gun? I know they're double stack/double feed...

Yes they can, at least in a defiance action. Not sure on others.

 

[Wyo_hntr]

Hey while we are arguing over dbms can we get unknown to do a batch of bright orange or red mags ?

Spray paint.

 

[Tru2life]

Great info I’ll be passing this along

 

[ElPollo]

I'm not specifically referring to magazines popping out inadvertently, though as you pointed out there are some stupid, poorly designed systems that have that problem. I mean people fumble things and they get lost in powdery snow. I do quite a bit of work via snowmobile most winters (didn't get much winter this year) and every outing someone looses a scrench or a file, not to mention hardware if we're hanging signs. Heck I've dropped my keys just getting out of the truck and had to sift for them. Shit happens.

As to your Glock and AR mag question, are you claiming nobody has ever lost a magazine from their Glock or AR? That's ludicrous. I guarantee more Glock mags have been lost in history than revolver cylinders, and more AR mags have been lost than floorplates or fixed internal box magazines.

Actually now that I think about it when I first started carrying years ago I had an XDS in a crossbreed style holster (different brand) and the kydex didn't cover the opposite side of the ambi mag release. It was stupid. I had dining chairs, work benches and kitchen counters eject my magazine on more than one occasion.

I haven't had a lot of problems with my revolvers, tube fed lever actions, tube fed shotguns, or fixed magazine bolt actions, nor have I seen other people have many mag related issues with them (unless you count 303 rims in Enfields... which are actually DBMs...). But I have been witness at public ranges in the pre season sight in rush to people showing up and saying "I could have sworn the mag should have been in the case." I also vaguely remember as a kid showing up to a range with no mag for my 10/22 once and single feeding it.

I guess you can name call me as amateurish, and that's probably fair, but it doesn't change the facts.

Didn't Jake or his son walk away from a pair of Swarovski binos on the mountain or something like that in one of the early podcasts? I guess Jake's amateurish too.

I bet I can even find an example in this very thread:



Every decision is a compromise and for a fighting weapon the need for firepower obviously outweighs the possibility of losing a magazine. But for a big game rifle, there's no need for high volume firepower. All else being equal my preference would be for all essential components of my hunting rifle to be attached to my hunting rifle. It's not a hill I'm going to die on as evidenced by the Tikka I recently bought, but it would be my preference.

You might decide that the benefits of a DBM outweigh the risk of losing the mag by 1,000,000:1 and in your opinion only idiots like me would ever consider an integral magazine, and that's fine.
But flatly stating that there's not a single function in which a DBM does not outperform an integral mag isn't true. A detachable mag can become separated from the rifle, however unlikely or amateurish that may be, while an integral mag cannot.

Now I'm off to listen to Tuesday's podcast to learn what else I'm an idiot about...

I don’t understand this argument. The fact that you can lose your cell phone does not mean you should replace it with a landline. You can drop a socket and it can roll down a sewer grate, but it doesn’t mean pliers are a better option. When I first bought a Tikka, I bought extra mags just in case I lost them. The only time I ever use them is at the range or in field practice.

 

[5811]

The fact that you can lose your cell phone does not mean you should replace it with a landline.

Cell phones used to have detachable batteries.....

 

[JohnJohnson]

For those who are kept up at night by hypothetical situations where their mag drops free and they lose it, use the MDT hunter DBM. It has a lock button that prevents your mag from dropping free. That'll solve that imaginary problem for those interested if you use a Remington pattern action.

https://mdttac.com/mdt-hunting-bottom-metal/

 

[Jason Snyder]

A lock button doesn’t keep you from forgetting one in the pickup

 

[kickemall]

Spring bear is right around the corner.... who is going to headshot a bear with their 22 mag for science?

I’ve done it a few times and seen it from other guys a few more. Worked about 30% of the time from a pistol. Some of the shots, while hitting the head, just weren’t good shots. This was also a long time ago with not so good bullets.

 

[Formidilosus]

Staccato website shows steel frame and aluminum frame for the P…33oz vs 28 oz.

I had to look. I have steel frame versions.

The CS is 23 oz. I was just thought if you had the aluminum version it might be close to recoil of CS.

The CS is better gun compared to P?

Yes the CS is a better gun. The P uses modified 45 auto mags which artificially make the grip larger than it should be. They also historically were not reliable, however Staccato corrected that and with the addition of Atlas 18% mags springs are as reliable as near any modern service pistol magazine. Although Staccato does a good job with their extractor tuning and 9mm 1911’s don’t really lose extractor tension, a properly done external extractor is just one less worry.

Now I’m curious to shoot 9mm 1911/2011 to compare to the Sig P365XL

If you can shoo, there a rather large difference.