The Raven: Unknown Munitions Tikka Clone action coming soon?

[eLightfoot]

How many people buy $1,000 plus mini actions? The only reason the Howa Mini is viable is because it is on sale all the time for sub $400. There should be a high end mini action, but let’s not act like it will sell as well as a “custom” of any other action size.

I might be in the minority here but a mini action is probably the only way I’m ever buying another custom action. A slick mini with good mags, tikka trigger, and I’d get my wallet out. It just a pain because there would be no immediate stocks or mags available but I’m sure stockys could whip something up.

 

[Formidilosus]

I might be in the minority here but a mini action is probably the only way I’m ever buying another custom action. A slick mini with good mags, tikka trigger, and I’d get my wallet out.

Me too.

It just a pain because there would be no immediate stocks or mags available but I’m sure stockys could whip something up.

Probably better that they try to make the stocks that they currently have.

 

[SamsonMan22]

Depends on the person and use. Is someone saying your Tikka is a POS and won’t work now?

Nope never said that was genuinely curious your thoughts on how much “better” the pic rail will truly make it? Stronger, more robust? I like the ease of pic rails and the variety of rings available so that is what would make it better for me…

I don’t think you and others understand at all. It is not between a “tikka and this new action”. It’s between “an R700 ‘custom’ and all the inherent compromises that entails, versus this new action”.

From what I gathered via the podcast is this is going to take tikka parts and vise versa, what makes this action new aside it says UM and not tikka?

Yes. Can you show me where I stated that I would choose to do it for my use, or most users? That it doesn’t make the rifle more reliable, doesn’t change the reality that people want 5lb rifles. Wilson choose a 5lb R700 based gun, or a 5lb Tikka based gun….

I will try to be more clear on this, never did I say you would choose it at least when I typed it and read it again just now I didn’t say that. I don’t think it changed magically on your screen but I could be wrong. I’m sure it won’t be hard to read back through and see where you have said every time something is done to the action outside of nitride I believe was some sort of compromise. If that is the case what will make this a better action aside from being lighter. The second part of that question is what will change with this action over the lightening cuts, sheep port, etc that is done to a factory action.

That’s exactly what you would have- which is exactly what some people want.

No kidding so how does it have a tikka foot print, use tikka bolts, and tikka accessories and not compromise what makes the tikka great. Again what does this action accomplish that you can’t get with the UM mods already offered. Same quality action at a lower price, Ti or Aluminum action?

You mean like the 87 different companies that make R700 “custom” actions? Isn’t “so common” and “made by everyone” used as plus for the R700 pattern? But for a Tikka based design that is wrong?

Yes exactly, I have limited experience with all of these customs no doubt. Aside from some machining advancements or quality, integral rail, recoil lug design in my eyes they are all the same. The only reason I’m paying for a custom rem clone over a 700 action is for tighter tolerances allowing for Prefits, better extractor (maybe?), and integral rail. The tikka already had this stuff covered realistically. Would a pic rail be a better option than the dovetail, sure but it’s not a deal breaker.

Wrong? Not at all, but it needs to be different, from what it was described it doesn’t sound all that different. A pic rail, nitride, and some lightening cuts doesn’t seem that revolutionary to me, certainly not worth the expense for the gain unless they plan to keep the price in line with what it costs to work over an existing tikka.

You believe they are going to have an action, and not make bolts?

Where did you pull this idea from? I said make bolts it’s what we need, the demand for bolts to swap calibers in existing actions seems to be there. I would expect it would do well for them given the cost and difficulty of getting tikka factory bolts. I was in no way talking about their new fancy action. Skip the custom action and make bolts for tikka actions, make sense?

With all due respect the questions I asked were genuine inquires not an argument. I’m trying to figure out how this new action will be so great vs what is already available. Unless it’s a totally new redesign I don’t see where it won’t be a compromise in some way, price, quality, availability, reliability, etc. Something has to change.

I can understand they are trying to accomplish what the custom 700s are doing, using tikkas footprint, bolt, trigger, and barrel dimensions and calling it a custom. Will it be worth the cost over a factory tikka I guess we won’t know until it’s here. I personally never will know, I’m happy enough with my factory actions and barrels, what I would like to see is a good magazine like the Waters available in the US. I can see the argument for this custom action over a custom 700 I guess. If that is what we are comparing to carry on.

 

[eLightfoot]

An

Me too.






Probably better that they try to make the stocks that they currently have.

everything takes time lol.
Also get Unknown to shorten a 6.5prc to ARC length and neck to 22&6mm. Rebirth the wssm done right. For when this hypothetical mini action comes out of course

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I might be in the minority here but a mini action is probably the only way I’m ever buying another custom action. A slick mini with good mags, tikka trigger, and I’d get my wallet out.

This, I’m interested in!

 

[Macintosh]

Please sir, no critical thinking here.

Sorry. Really sorry. In that case I wont ask about keeping expensive machinery working to justify its purchase and pay it off on time. Nor will I consider keeping year-round employment viable for enough skilled laborers to manage times of peak demand or create a growth track for basic employees. It must just be a business owner playing whack-a-mole with projects.

 

[SamsonMan22]

Sorry. Really sorry. In that case I wont ask about keeping expensive machinery working to justify its purchase and pay it off on time. Nor will I consider keeping year-round employment viable for enough skilled laborers to manage times of peak demand or create a growth track for basic employees. It must just be a business owner playing whack-a-mole with projects.

Are they that low on work?

 

[Formidilosus]

Nope never said that was genuinely curious your thoughts on how much “better” the pic rail will truly make it? Stronger, more robust? I like the ease of pic rails and the variety of rings available so that is what would make it better for me…

Yes. It is stronger. An integral pic rail is the strongest system currently available. A tikka with UM rings is absolutely fine. But if you lay an identical action right beside it, except that it has an integral pic rail- nearly 100% of people will choose the one with integral pic rail.

From what I gathered via the podcast is this is going to take tikka parts and vise versa, what makes this action new aside it says UM and not tikka?

You mean besides an integral pic rail, nitrided, and lighter or more sealed?

I will try to be more clear on this, never did I say you would choose it at least when I typed it and read it again just now I didn’t say that. I don’t think it changed magically on your screen but I could be wrong. I’m sure it won’t be hard to read back through and see where you have said every time something is done to the action outside of nitride I believe was some sort of compromise. If that is the case what will make this a better action aside from being lighter.

Again- I never said that I would choose the lighting cuts. But people want them. They want lighter actions. Because of the weight of Tikka actions, there are people that choose demonstrable subpar actions. Between a flawed R700 custom and an improved “custom” Tikka pattern action- the latter is a much, much better choice.

I do not know how to be more clear with this?

The second part of that question is what will change with this action over the lightening cuts, sheep port, etc that is done to a factory action.

It will be a finished action when it comes off the machine- not an action that had to be put in a machine and modified.

No kidding so how does it have a tikka foot print, use tikka bolts, and tikka accessories and not compromise what makes the tikka great.

? I am genuinely confused by this question. What makes a Tikka great in your mind?

Again what does this action accomplish that you can’t get with the UM mods already offered. Same quality action at a lower price, Ti or Aluminum action?

A integral picatinny rail, not having to go out for nitriding, not having to be shipped multiple times across the country. Not having to be tore down, just to remake it. Purposely designed cuts and weight reductions without having to work around legacy scope mounting limitations.

Yes exactly, I have limited experience with all of these customs no doubt. Aside from some machining advancements or quality, integral rail, recoil lug design in my eyes they are all the same.

Those are some pretty large relative differences.

The only reason I’m paying for a custom rem clone over a 700 action is for tighter tolerances allowing for Prefits, better extractor (maybe?), and integral rail. The tikka already had this stuff covered realistically. Would a pic rail be a better option than the dovetail, sure but it’s not a deal breaker.

Ok? Then this action isn’t for you, and no one is trying to tell you that it is.

Wrong? Not at all, but it needs to be different, from what it was described it doesn’t sound all that different. A pic rail, nitride, and some lightening cuts doesn’t seem that revolutionary to me,

Nothing in firearms is “revolutionary”- it is all “evolutionary”. The goal UM had with this action is that it is an evolution of an already good action, into something better.

Where did you pull this idea from? I said make bolts it’s what we need, the demand for bolts to swap calibers in existing actions seems to be there. I would expect it would do well for them given the cost and difficulty of getting tikka factory bolts. I was in no way talking about their new fancy action. Skip the custom action and make bolts for tikka actions, make sense?

They can make an action and make bolts. That you aren’t interested in evolutionary advancements to an already good action, doesn’t mean that others aren’t.

With all due respect the questions I asked were genuine inquires not an argument. I’m trying to figure out how this new action will be so great vs what is already available. Unless it’s a totally new redesign I don’t see where it won’t be a compromise in some way, price, quality, availability, reliability, etc. Something has to change.

Who said it’s “so great”?
Some people (not you) would rather buy an already made action with integral picatinny rail, nitrided, correctly designed bolt handle and knob geometry, more enclosed and sealed action; or a more cut away lighter action.

That’s literally what it is. Full stop. Take money out of the equation and lay them both side by side- no one would choose a Tikka T3x action as they are now, versus an improved version.

 

[ElPollo]

Genuine question here... Why would I buy a "tikka clone" with worse barrels, when I can just buy a Tikka?

If 30 years ago, you told me that people would be paying $2k for a R700 action, I would have said you were nutz. Honestly, I still think it’s bat-shit cray cray.

 

[SamsonMan22]

Yes. It is stronger. An integral pic rail is the strongest system currently available. A tikka with UM rings is absolutely fine. But if you lay an identical action right beside, except that it has an integral pic rail- nearly 100% of people will choose the one with integral pic rail.






You mean besides an integral pic rail, nitrided, and lighter?







Again- I never said that I would choose the lighting cuts. But people want them. They want lighter actions. Because of the weight of Tikka actions, there are people that choose demonstrable subpar actions. Between a flawed R700 custom and an improved “custom” Tikka pattern action- the latter is a much, much better choice.

I do not know how to be clear with this point?





It will be a finished action when it comes off the machine- not an action that had to be out in a machine and modified.




? I am genuinely confused by this question. What makes a Tikka great in your mind?





A integral picatinny rail, not having to go out for nitriding, not having to be shipped multiple times across the country. Not having to be tore down, just to remake it. Purposely designed cuts and weight reductions without having to work around legacy scope mounting limitations.




Those are some pretty large relative differences.





Ok? Then this action isn’t for you, and no one is trying to tell you that it is.




Nothing in firearms is “revolutionary”- it is all “evolutionary”. The goal UM had with this action is that it is an evolution of an already good action, into something better.



They can make an action and make bolts. That you aren’t interested in evolutionary advancements to an already good action, doesn’t mean that others aren’t. So why do you care if they make an action as well?





Who said it’s “so great”? Some people (not you) would rather buy an already made action with integral picatinny rail, nitrided, correctly designed bolt handle and knob geometry; more enclosed action, or a more cut away lighter action.

That’s literally what it is. Full stop. Take money out of the equation and lay them bury side by side- no one would choose a Tikka T3x action as they are now, versus an improved version.

I’m not going to spend all night typing on this iPhone so to the point I get what you are saying on all accounts. Yes I understand this is not for everyone myself included and no I did not take it as anyone is forcing me, this is no longer a tikka action it’s just a tikka foot print I get it.

It will work the same as the 700 vs. clones I will pay more money for a better (?) product. I can see the argument for the 700 clones even if they have the same trigger issue as the original, they can still be an inferior product but better than the original. Like you said the changes are large, what I was saying if they all make the same quality changes then nothing really sets each apart aside from price. To each their own if they wish to use any of the above.

The realistic downsides of the tikka are so insignificant given the products we have to work with I find it hard to believe this will be a big selling point of the new action vs what is already being made and modified, but message received. There is someone out there who wants it, same as there are people who will take a factory barrel off to put on a custom barrel of the same chambering.

*Edit

I get evolution, but there is a point where the leaps are so small I’d hardly call it evolutionary. I guess my choice of words was poor there, sorry for the confusion.

 

[Formidilosus]

same as there are people who will take a factory barrel off to put on a custom barrel of the same chambering.

100%.



From my perspective what this action will do better for my uses, and therefore why I would choose to use it, is because I am not into puttering around with one rifle after another, and getting a new “build” every year of repetitive nonsense. I buy rifles to use heavily, and value reliably, durability, and correct function more than any other aspect. Given the same reliability in the rest of the action, I will pay extra for an integral picatinny rail. Given the option of a more sealed action, I will pay extra (I prefer T3 actions to T3x’s for this reason).

 

[Antares]

Barrels. Stock options. Detachable and higher capacity magazines.

You forgot the absolutely eye watering price tag.

 

[eLightfoot]

100%.



From my perspective what this action will do better for my uses, and therefore why I would choose to use it, is because I am not into puttering around with one rifle after another, and getting a new “build” every year of repetitive nonsense. I buy rifles to use heavily, and value reliably, durability, and correct function more than any other aspect. Given the same reliability in the rest of the action, I will pay extra for an integral picatinny rail. Given the option of a more sealed action, I will pay extra (I prefer T3 actions to T3x’s for this reason).

Are they planning to make tikka clone triggers to go with these? Or will the buyers have to source a factory take off?

 

[Lawnboi]

Curious if they will follow the tikka footprint or not.

I can’t fault a factory tikka, besides wanting an integral picatinny.

 

[SamsonMan22]

100%.



From my perspective what this action will do better for my uses, and therefore why I would choose to use it, is because I am not into puttering around with one rifle after another, and getting a new “build” every year of repetitive nonsense. I buy rifles to use heavily, and value reliably, durability, and correct function more than any other aspect. Given the same reliability in the rest of the action, I will pay extra for an integral picatinny rail. Given the option of a more sealed action, I will pay extra (I prefer T3 actions to T3x’s for this reason).

Understood, with the new build every year aspect what does this do differently (serious question)? I guess I don’t understand what you are getting at here. Unless they put something together that is near tool-less to swap barrels, what can they offer that isn’t already available?

The ability to unscrew an existing barrel and replace with a factory replacement or quality prefit is there with the tikka already. To swap bolt faces is there as well aside from the ARC sized bolt face. The argument for more sealed and the pic rail sure if the end user demands it fine I get it.

 

[GoatPackr]

Are they planning to make tikka clone triggers to go with these? Or will the buyers have to source a factory take off?

Yes triggers will be available from a reputable aftermarket company.
According to what I was told.

 

[Formidilosus]

Are they planning to make tikka clone triggers to go with these? Or will the buyers have to source a factory take off?

No. Making triggers is whole other thing. I would imagine if someone is buying this action then they wouldn’t have an issue with sourcing a trigger from Timney, Jard, Bix n Andy, KRG, or factory.

 

[omicron1792]

Better in what way? It certainly isn’t as durable/strong.

For one it is married to the barrel not the action. So you can switch barrels and keep scope on the barrel without having to re zero. Swap barrel and scope onto action and stock, bam you have a new rifle ready to go.

 

[Formidilosus]

For one it is married to the barrel not the action. So you can switch barrels and keep scope on the barrel without having to re zero. Swap barrel and scope onto action and stock, bam you have a new rifle ready to go.

That they do well. How does that apply to a system that doesn’t mount the scope on the barrel?

Regardless, the mount system is weaker/less able to handle abuse than correct picatinny.

 

[WeiserBucks]

To swap bolt faces is there as well aside from the ARC sized bolt face.

Please point me towards the Tikka bolts with interchangeable bolt heads that can be purchased today.