The point Creep is ridiculous

[wyosam]

I don’t much about any state other than Wyoming. Hunted there forever as a resident, 99%OTC. One thing that I would like to see changed there, is non-residents (which I am now) can choose to hunt whether to put in for full price draw hunts, OR cow/calf tags. Don’t earn points years you choose to put in for reduced price/cow tags. If you want the premium tags, you can choose to hunt less often. Mostly I’d like a slightly better chance of coming home to hunt. Hell, put those on points, too.


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[Hnthrdr]

Truth. Having a “hunt of a lifetime” experience every year isn’t realistic or sustainable.


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I mean they are what you make of them, shot my best animals with good friends having laughs, and cutting up on low expectation tags ironically my high point tag I hunted, was not as fun, higher expectations, tight timelines and such. It was fun but less so

 

[SDHNTR]

It's a huge problem. Lets say you grew up in a non-hunting family. you're a 20-21 year old and have learned about hunting from the internet or friends. now you want to go. oh hey, you won't draw for 10 years. boom there goes a new hunter gone.

I’m not so sure that’s a bad thing anymore. The West needs less hunters, not more. RRR is a crock.

 

[lyingflatlander]

So chief, my uncle is a resident in Colorado sitting on 31 points for elk. He drew a coveted tag a couple years ago and developed a heart condition. Decided to return his tag and lose a point in the process because he physically couldn’t hack it. He might be able to draw the tag he’s after again this year. I don’t know how well he will be able to get after it if he does. The waiting game is a myth for some of the highest point holders. Just look at the statistics, still drawing points but could hunt virtually anywhere. I just don’t think they can physically do it anymore, but relent by buying a point.

 

[5MilesBack]

If demand is still outstripping supply, there's room to move the price up. The concept would be to continue to raise prices until demand and supply stabilize.

You can see that with landowner vouchers. A particular voucher I'm familiar with is now up 1150% since 2010. That's a pretty hefty increase. What has been the biggest impact to the demand since 2010?????

 

[H@mstar19x3]

I’m not so sure that’s a bad thing anymore. The West needs less hunters, not more. RRR is a crock.

When enough people quit hunting, the antis will stop it for all of us.

 

[Hnthrdr]

When enough people quit hunting, the antis will stop it for all of us.

This is a non starter, we will never have enough numbers to make a real dent at the ballot box. Best we can do is be responsible, respectful, better stewards of our public land and teach the 85% of the public that are neutral to us that we the real conservationists not the crazy cat ladies

Think about it, this whole thread is about point creep. If we get another 10-20% hunters all of our odds would plummet you would be hunting dramatically less. At least out west where we have extremely high demand and rather limited supply. I think back east and Midwest would be limited by places to go

 

[wapitibob]

The simple solution is to raise the tag price for both residents and non residents to the point available tags are in balance with what folks are willing to pay.

The way you do that is to auction all the tags. You want to play that game?

 

[Hnthrdr]

The way you do that is to auction all the tags. You want to play that game?

Nobody wants to play that game… I am pretty squarely in the boat of R tags everywhere should be dirt cheap, NR tags shouldn’t be as cheap but pushing 2000 k for an ungulate tag is wild… and I’m not broke or a cheap skate but I think there needs to be some kind of balance… heck 400 for a whitetail or MD is hard for me to swallow… i get you are “paying for an experience” but charging beaucoup bucks too get rid of competition is kind of stupid, I think everyone has varying levels where they would just sit it out. Dudes trying to sell cow tags for 2k in my own state on a late season drive up and shoot tag… gtfo, but he sells them. Heck rancher was getting 2k for a speed goat up in Wyoming and not even trophy goats, that was 6-7 years ago I wonder what he gets today

 

[ElDiablito]

This is a non starter, we will never have enough numbers to make a real dent at the ballot box. Best we can do is be responsible, respectful, better stewards of our public land and teach the 85% of the public that are neutral to us that we the real conservationists not the crazy cat ladies

Think about it, this whole thread is about point creep. If we get another 10-20% hunters all of our odds would plummet you would be hunting dramatically less. At least out west where we have extremely high demand and rather limited supply. I think back east and Midwest would be limited by places to go

Agreed! The last thing we need is MORE hunters. We need fewer! And all of need to be ethical representatives. As you say, we need to educate the non-hunters.

 

[BRTreedogs]

I was really hoping the Rona would knock down high point holders but we had to slow the curve

 

[Coveyleader]

En algún lugar sobre el arcoíris…. a lo alto……y los sueños que soñaste….una vez en una canción de cuna…ohhhh….En algún lugar sobre el arcoíris…. donde vuelen los pájaros azules …..y….. los tags that you dream of really do ….. do come true…… true…….

 

[NMJM]

If it all comes down to supply and demand why not push to increase supply? States could increase the price of a tag and earmark the new money to acquire more land. Because the new purchase of land was done entirely with fees from hunting the land would be managed for hunters. This would increase supply.

 

[BRTreedogs]

If it all comes down to supply and demand why not push to increase supply? States could increase the price of a tag and earmark the new money to acquire more land. Because the new purchase of land was done entirely with fees from hunting the land would be managed for hunters. This would increase supply.

You must be smoking some really good dope.

 

[Hnthrdr]

If it all comes down to supply and demand why not push to increase supply? States could increase the price of a tag and earmark the new money to acquire more land. Because the new purchase of land was done entirely with fees from hunting the land would be managed for hunters. This would increase supply.

Absolutely, if Co wasn’t run by idiots, they could, not introduce wolves, focus on habitat improvement and growing herds that in turn would give us more tags… this will never happen though

 

[PathFinder]

You can see that with landowner vouchers. A particular voucher I'm familiar with is now up 1150% since 2010. That's a pretty hefty increase. What has been the biggest impact to the demand since 2010?????

It's hard to say now for Colorado specifically because draw odds from that far back aren't on the site any more. The best comparison I have in memory is from LE elk and deer hunts in Utah. Premium tags at that time could be drawn with 13-18 points. Now it's 25+ points and increasing every year; that means it's probably an extra 20 years for people who have the amount of points that once would have drawn a tag. 20 years of life or pay $2k for a tag that could be had for a couple hundred bucks before? That's an easy decision.

 

[PathFinder]

If it all comes down to supply and demand why not push to increase supply? States could increase the price of a tag and earmark the new money to acquire more land. Because the new purchase of land was done entirely with fees from hunting the land would be managed for hunters. This would increase supply.

Land access alone does not increase supply. Tag numbers are based on wildlife populations, not available public land.
Now, if all the extra funding were poured into habitat purchases and maximizing the productivity of that habitat, maybe populations would increase substantially in some areas. But that would require state wildlife agencies to actually do conservation work and not just bureaucracy, and that's unlikely.

 

[CHIEF CRNA]

En algún lugar sobre el arcoíris…. a lo alto……y los sueños que soñaste….una vez en una canción de cuna…ohhhh….En algún lugar sobre el arcoíris…. donde vuelen los pájaros azules …..y….. los tags that you dream of really do ….. do come true…… true…….

Had to throw that one into google translate. Just in case you are wondering what he said. Don't know why he couldn't write it in English, but here you go.

"Somewhere over the rainbow…. up high……and the dreams you dreamed….once in a lullaby…ohhhh….Somewhere over the rainbow…. where the blue birds fly…..and….. the tags that you dream of really do….. do come true…… true……."

 

[CorbLand]

Land access alone does not increase supply. Tag numbers are based on wildlife populations, not available public land.
Now, if all the extra funding were poured into habitat purchases and maximizing the productivity of that habitat, maybe populations would increase substantially in some areas. But that would require state wildlife agencies to actually do conservation work and not just bureaucracy, and that's unlikely.

Lets not forget that many of the wildlife agencies really do want to do work but they are generally hamstrung by legislature and other agencies. The amount of red tape, especially on federal ground, is pretty remarkable.

Not saying all are good or even the good ones cant be better but largely the blame lies at red tape and lack of funding.

 

[jmez]

Public land is going to take a big hit in the near future with the lack of a farm bill. All federal money the states use for walk in , Plots, etc etc etc was in the farm bill. When they passed the recent extension it didn't contain the concervation dollars.