The opposite of the Rokslide special, tooter and quartering gut shots with large cartridges

[Poser]

No, not taking that shot and mature bulls don't present themselves broadside any less than other elk. They may make less mistakes, stay tighter and be more difficult, but they don't stand perpendicular at a higher %. People who shoot animals up the ass just want to shoot animals up the ass.

 

[WoolOverAll]

Tracking animals to their bedroom for the kill is an entirely different kind of hunting than what is mostly discussed on this forum. It's a lot harder, and not all shots presented are perfect. That's hunting.

This shot is a bit different than an animal quartering away a bit too much or having an interesting angle. In the story you told, that bull would have won the day with me and I would continue to look for an acceptable shot. Failure is a part of hunting and accepting you don't get an opportunity on every animal you see is fine. I have passed plenty of animals due to this and will continue to do so rather than make a low percentage shot with heavy downside if you make a tiny miscalculation.

 

[HunterGatherer]

As long as you have enough wallop, just start walloping

 

[bradmacmt]

Aside, I wonder how many here archery hunt for elk and consider it perfectly ethical?

I used to get the yearly stats by a local outfitter off a well known local ranch. Their overall recovery rate over the years was less than 50%. Going by memory, around 30%.

All my friends bow hunt. I used to. I'm for bowhunting and bowhunters (though you could make a pretty good case a compound bow, while a vicious little machine, is not really a bow). But I won't bow hunt for elk. It's a low percentage pursuit. My choice, and I support yours.

Years ago I had a conversation with an FWP employee. She mentioned if PETA knew what went on during elk season in the mountains of Montana we'd probably lose archery elk season. Everyone who has been at it for any period of time has lost an elk. Yearly there are photos of bulls with arrows sticking out of them, or photos of broadheads being uncovered from rifle killed elk.

So there is that...

 

[HunterGatherer]

Aside, I wonder how many here archery hunt for elk and consider it perfectly ethical?

I used to get the yearly stats by a local outfitter off a well known local ranch. Their overall recovery rate over the years was less than 50%. Going by memory, around 30%.

All my friends bow hunt. I used to. I'm for bowhunting and bowhunters (though you could make a pretty good case a compound bow, while a vicious little machine, is not really a bow). But I won't bow hunt for elk. It's a low percentage pursuit. My choice, and I support yours.

Years ago I had a conversation with an FWP employee. She mentioned if PETA knew what went on during elk season in the mountains of Montana we'd probably lose archery elk season. Everyone who has been at it for any period of time has lost an elk. Yearly there are photos of bulls with arrows sticking out of them, or photos of broadheads being uncovered from rifle killed elk.

So there is that...

Ass shooters calling out bow hunters- now that is rich . There’s slobs in both camps and ethical, consistent killers in both camps as well. Processors find plenty of old bullets And broadheads in animals so Don’t be throwing stones

 

[mtnbiker208]

@mtnbiker208/@Ross, have either of you switched to something in 22 caliber or 6mm for your primary elk rifle?

Believe it or not, i bought a short barreled 338wm and put a suppressor on it. I love the caliber and with the suppressor, it is a joy to shoot. The g bear, moose and elk i killed with it this fall, reaffirmed i just love the caliber.

If people want to use small calibers for big game, that is there choice. I just don't want to use that small of a caliber for elk size animals, i don't always get the perfect shot,

 

[IDVortex]

Hey, I tried really hard not to call out the obvious bullshit, but you kept harping on having done something once making you an expert.

We all accidentally miss estimate at times, accident or intentional, bullshit is still bullshit.

What a savage.

 

[KenLee]

I hate that I'm responding to your trolling, but I can't let this kind of shit go unanswered lest someone follow your advice.

When was the last deer or elk that you killed? Do you have any pictures of the kill, bullet performance, anything? I just went outside to the bone piles here and took a few pictures using your favorite metric of accuracy, a paper plate. I included a tape measure for those that use real measurements.

So your assertion, across multiple threads, is that the above shot on a once-in-a-lifetime bull is valid and ethical. You can reliably hit a 2-3 MOA moving target? From what positions & ranges can you reliably shoot that well? How many elk or deer have you killed with that shot? How many have you wounded and lost? Average shot distance, average number of shots required to kill the animal?

There are plenty of stories and experiences with elk and deer where a broadside shot is pulled and spines them above the stomach or just in front of the pelvis. The result is an animal that is still very much alive, usually trying to get back up on it's front feet while paralyzed from the impact location back. What happens then is the shooter gets into a position where they can make a shot into the vitals or to the CNS above or in front of the shoulder. Sometimes that takes 3 seconds, sometimes that takes 30 minutes.

Somehow a sub-6.5mm caliber is marginal for going through an elk shoulder, yet a .338 or 7mag can go through 3+ feet of spine and stomach to reach the vitals? Or are you just banging away at the animal, hoping to knock it down then be able to go finish it off? That's ethical to you?

If that's your hunting style, what is the difference between that and just hammering away at a rear quarter broadside when you get a glimpse of brown fur? The result will be similar, as breaking the pelvis tends to be a fatal wound regardless of the mechanism that caused it.

The difference is that for an ethical hunter, we want a fast expiration both for the animals' sake and for the quality of meat recovered; which is why gut shots are frowned upon by hunters that take themselves seriously.

You bag on influencers and social media hunters (rightfully so in many cases), yet will advocate taking that shot on a BOAL. The driver behind hunting for social media clout and ass-shooting a BOAL is the same; it's just ego. Taking that shot (or bragging about it) in any outfitter I have worked for or hunting camp I have been in would lead to that being your last trip with us.

First picture is a cow elk spine, 3" in diameter. Spinal column itself is about an inch.
View attachment 997348

Second picture, same spine with a plate.
View attachment 997349

Third picture is a mule deer buck spine with a plate.
View attachment 997351

Fourth picture is looking down that mulie's spine, showing the spinal column itself is under .75".
View attachment 997355

Fifth picture is the pelvis, showing a total width from femur socket to femur socket of 5".
View attachment 997360

Last picture is a cow elk, showing over 3 feet of penetration needed to reach into the vitals from behind.View attachment 997364


PS- Did you kill a deer yet with your 6mm? Or take any cousins/nephews/neighbors/women/children hunting this year and have them shoot a 6mm? What were the results?

All this and what sticks with me is your disbelief that someone can hit a 3 moa moving target going straight away. That's a gimme freehand if you grew up shooting moving targets.

 

[mtnbound]

Aside, I wonder how many here archery hunt for elk and consider it perfectly ethical?

I used to get the yearly stats by a local outfitter off a well known local ranch. Their overall recovery rate over the years was less than 50%. Going by memory, around 30%.

All my friends bow hunt. I used to. I'm for bowhunting and bowhunters (though you could make a pretty good case a compound bow, while a vicious little machine, is not really a bow). But I won't bow hunt for elk. It's a low percentage pursuit. My choice, and I support yours.

Years ago I had a conversation with an FWP employee. She mentioned if PETA knew what went on during elk season in the mountains of Montana we'd probably lose archery elk season. Everyone who has been at it for any period of time has lost an elk. Yearly there are photos of bulls with arrows sticking out of them, or photos of broadheads being uncovered from rifle killed elk.

So there is that...

Nope, still not an ethical shot. Does not matter the tool used, broadhead or bullet they go behind the front leg and into the vitals.

 

[bradmacmt]

Hey, I tried really hard not to call out the obvious bullshit, but you kept harping on having done something once making you an expert.

We all accidentally miss estimate at times, accident or intentional, bullshit is still bullshit.

You weren't there.

You do realize Montana is a big state, right? Temps do vary. This was in the mountains 25 miles North of YNP. The trailhead where I started was at a pretty good elevation, and had 9-ish inches of new snow, and I gained around 1,500' of elevation. There was more snow up high, and the temps do drop higher up - you do realize that, right? You also realize in Montana snow drifts and pools, and when negotiating blow downs sometimes you can be up to you knees (and a lot higher) in snow, right?

The only one FOS is you...

 

[Maidenfan539]

Let's try to keep this thread on topic or we will just lock it.

 

[FredH]

Ass shooters calling out bow hunters- now that is rich . There’s slobs in both camps and ethical, consistent killers in both camps as well. Processors find plenty of old bullets And broadheads in animals so Don’t be throwing stones

Awwwww a bigot.

 

[HunterGatherer]

Awwwww a bigot.

You must be talking about the guy that threw bowhunters under the bus to justify bung shots. Either that or you don’t know what bigot means - how Ironic. Mods, might as well lock it up.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

You've tuned in to THAT shit more than once?!?! On purpose?!?!

He just loves him some him and goes about it in a way that is really fu#king obnoxious.

His success in business and shooting at animals is undeniable, but I can't imagine trying to even have a passing conversation with that jackass.

I get completely sucked into it.....I don't know how. Like a mental vortex of some sort. I get super frustated.....he's just "down the road" from me a bit. Frustrated as he seems to live in the most "predator dense" 234 acres in the US. Not sure the last time a grizzly has been officially documented on the Idaho side of the Bitteroots south of town, yet he seems to have Grizz right out his door. Not sure the last time anyone "smoked a pack" of wolves on the way into town either. Shit simply isn't around every corner.

But maybe I am simply jealous and envious.....

Tim does seem to love him some Tim though...."blow dry his chest hair". Great one.

Watched him miss a few plates at "10 meters" with handguns due to "improper colored" front sights.

I shoulda taken a tip from him in my single years and sent some nude vids to my girls shooting handguns at sub 10 meters and catching some "splash" that can't hurt me.

 

[Jimmy]

 

[BreechFace]

I get completely sucked into it.....I don't know how. Like a mental vortex of some sort. I get super frustated.....he's just "down the road" from me a bit. Frustrated as he seems to live in the most "predator dense" 234 acres in the US. Not sure the last time a grizzly has been officially documented on the Idaho side of the Bitteroots south of town, yet he seems to have Grizz right out his door. Not sure the last time anyone "smoked a pack" of wolves on the way into town either. Shit simply isn't around every corner.

But maybe I am simply jealous and envious.....

Tim does seem to love him some Tim though...."blow dry his chest hair". Great one.

Watched him miss a few plates at "10 meters" with handguns due to "improper colored" front sights.

I shoulda taken a tip from him in my single years and sent some nude vids to my girls shooting handguns at sub 10 meters and catching some "splash" that can't hurt me.

There have been verified grizzly experiences in the area.

Idaho bowhunter survives grizzly attack after 24 shots at the bear to put it down // GOHUNT. The Hunting Company

Attack occurred in the Caribou-Targhee National Forest

www.gohunt.com

Grizzly bear sighting near Salmon

The Department of Fish and Game says grizzlies are not often seen in the area.

www.ktvb.com

F&G confirms the first Grizzly Bear sighting west of I-15 in the Upper Snake Region

Trail camera footage provided to Fish and Game staff confirms the presence of a grizzly bear west of Interstate 15 in Hunting Unit 59. The bear was photographed by a trail camera on May 31, and was clearly identified as a grizzly bear.

idfg.idaho.gov

https://idfg.idaho.gov/article/fg-alerts-hunters-and-recreationists-confirmed-grizzly-sighting-north-salmon

I did chuckle quite a bit at the "blow dry his chest hair" comment, that's funny!

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

Not really trying to pick scabs, but Island Park has a shit ton of big bears. But it's right outside of The Park....several hours away. Tim lives just a few miles S of Salmon, Idaho.

North Fork is 45 miles the other way.

I have minimal doubt the bigger bears roam a bit....but he made another statement of running off a sow and two cubs very recently.

 

[KenLee]

I've never tried a Texas Heart Shot on an Elk. I 'd guess a dozen on whitetail in 45 years. They are devastating. Never had one go 20 yards. Meat loss is not as bad as you'd expect with cup and core bullets. 30-06, 270, 300wsm.

 

[Dobermann]

Well I have shot one elk in the azz with my 35 Whelen ...

So would I recommend rear end spine shots ...

Advice to others based on large sample size noted.

 

[wind gypsy]

Aside, I wonder how many here archery hunt for elk and consider it perfectly ethical?

I used to get the yearly stats by a local outfitter off a well known local ranch. Their overall recovery rate over the years was less than 50%. Going by memory, around 30%.

All my friends bow hunt. I used to. I'm for bowhunting and bowhunters (though you could make a pretty good case a compound bow, while a vicious little machine, is not really a bow). But I won't bow hunt for elk. It's a low percentage pursuit. My choice, and I support yours.

Years ago I had a conversation with an FWP employee. She mentioned if PETA knew what went on during elk season in the mountains of Montana we'd probably lose archery elk season. Everyone who has been at it for any period of time has lost an elk. Yearly there are photos of bulls with arrows sticking out of them, or photos of broadheads being uncovered from rifle killed elk.

So there is that...

And its easier to make a good shot on an elk with a bow than a deer.. Lot bigger vitals and less likely to jump the string.