The opposite of the Rokslide special, tooter and quartering gut shots with large cartridges

[Fartrell Cluggins]

I shot a yearling straight up the butt with a 257 Roberts. It blowed the hair plum off its belly.

 

[FredH]

Can shoot a deer in the spine with an arrow, than go finish it off.

Many of us like the idea of the first shot being quickly lethal, making it more ethical than just filling stuff up with shots.

A hit to the femoral artery is quickly lethal, but its a low margin shot if you are actually going to aim for it.


I reckon if your survival depends on killing it, I wouldn't be bothered in the least, but most are hunting for the fun of it honestly, we aren't starving because we didn't fill a tag. Personally I prefer to take a single shot I have extremely high confidence in killing the animal quickly, and not making a mess of it.

I'm not a fan of head shots either. I ain't shooting at the sneezer or the breezer, hit'em center and put them in the freezer.

I was stunned when he hit his moose in the ham. He was rested over the back of his truck and it was very windy. To be successful in some kinds of hunting concessions must be made sometimes.

 

[Marbles]

What makes that shot so letahl is it takes out the femoral artery.

You have to sever the femoral. I have seen both humans and animals with bullet shattered femurs and intact femoral arteries.

Arteries are pretty tough and stretchy, if you don't hit them directly, or cut them, they are probably staying intact. Don't count on the temporary cavity to do the job. So, a shot hoping to sever the femoral is a shot counting on blind luck.

 

[mtnbound]

That's a shot I will not take; it's ok if the animal wins on that encounter. I have seen the results, not a humane kill in my opinion, and the amount of crap that gets spread all over the animal makes a lot more work to get the meat clean, and if you are not meticulous about it, you are eating shit literally. If you miss the B-hole and hit the ham, then you are just wasting meat; it's a no-win in my book.

 

[bradmacmt]

You have to sever the femoral. I have seen both humans and animals with bullet shattered femurs and intact femoral arteries.

Arteries are pretty tough and stretchy, if you don't hit them directly, or cut them, they are probably staying intact. Don't count on the temporary cavity to do the job. So, a shot hoping to sever the femoral is a shot counting on blind luck.

Have you ever seen what a 338 WM and 210 Partition at 40 yards does to them?

I thought not...

 

[roosiebull]

@BAKPAKR I’ve always followed the motto keep shooting until your standing over them. Too many horror stories when not done.

Okay, let’s say you shoot a bull at 400yds, he staggered around as you work the bolt and tips over just about the time you are about to shoot a second shot… so now you have a dead bull…. But you’re 400yds from standing over him… how far do you walk towards him before you shoot him again? And then do you continue to travel that distance and shoot until you get to him?

The really confusing part is if it’s across canyon, you drop down the ridge and can’t see him again until you are 30 yds, do you just fire shots in the general direction or do you hold fire until you see him again?

I think this might be the best argument Ive heard for shooting copper bullets

 

[ianpadron]

I find Tim entertaining. He's the quintessential Boomer/Fudd final boss, but owns that persona, so I respect it lol.

 

[Marbles]

Have you ever seen what a 338 WM and 210 Partition does to them?

I thought not...

Yet you have publicly stated it is not a shot you would take now. Why?

And, why now do you feel the need to argue that it is consistently lethal? Because that is what you are doing above.

There is a difference between saying something can work and saying something is a good idea and should be used as a matter of policy.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/17835921/re-thoughts-on-the-338-210-grain-nosler-partition#Post17835921

 

[KenLee]

I take some of what he has to say with a grain of salt, but agree with him on the 338.

I often shoot a 338 for elk and 7 mag for deer just because the angle of the shot doesn’t matter as much.

Hitting the base of the tail will anchor an animal quite well.

Devastating

 

[wyosam]

Well I have shot one elk in the azz with my 35 Whelen. Range was 35 yards and I hit the spine above the pelvic bone. the bullet traveled down the spine for a foot and a half and then angled downward hittin one lung followed the rib cage up into the neck. 250 grain Nosler Partition pushed at a leisurely 2400 fps. I can't really explain it but the elk was dead when I got to him which took a bit because getting through the alders was a job and getting his big azz out of there was a job that entailed an hour of chainsaw work, a long strap and a chain and a 4 wheel drive truck. The second Roosevelt elk I have shot. He was a monster. We cut him up into quarters just to get him in the truck. Thank God I was young and tough. So would I recommend rear end spine shots, yes if you have enough gun and a good bullet. And a good truck, a chainsaw, 3 hunting buddies and a case of Olympia beer.

Don’t underestimate the importance of that case of Oly. Nectar of the gods, at least according to my younger self.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bradmacmt]

Yet you have publicly stated it is not a shot you would take now. Why?

And, why now do you feel the need to argue that it is consistently lethal? Because that is what you are doing above.

There is a difference between saying something can work and saying something is a good idea and should be used as a matter of policy.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/17835921/re-thoughts-on-the-338-210-grain-nosler-partition#Post17835921

Not a shot I'd take today, because I don't carry that combo of rifle and bullet. Pretty simple.

But it's a completely ethical shot with the right bullet/cartridge combo.

You haven't done it so you don't know.

Aside, back in the early 90's a friend had a collection of videos made by some redneck deer hunter up in Michigan. I'm not one for hunting shows (I don't watch them), but I did suffer through a couple of these videos. This guy was simply a phenomenal trad bowman. His preferred shot on whitetails was the femoral artery. At the time I couldn't believe what I was watching, but he put down deer after deer with a rear ham shot. Pretty wild, and not something I have the skill for.

 

[wind gypsy]

Pic below is a 300 SMK from a 338 Lapua came to rest in this bulls heart after a quartering away shot. Entry right in front of hind quarter. 100ish yards with 2800ish MV IIRC. Tells me steep quartering away shot on elk is likely to have a pretty narrow wound in front of diaphram by the time most bullets get there if they do.

Shot my whitetail pretty steep quartering away this year too. I really dont like what making a mess of the guts does to the meat. Going to try harder to avoid such shots going forward.

 

[BLJ]

But it's a completely ethical shot with the right bullet/cartridge combo.

In your opinion, ass shooting an animal to slow it down/stop it to then have an opportunity to kill it with the second shot is ethical?

 

[FredH]

Don’t underestimate the importance of that case of Oly. Nectar of the gods, at least according to my younger self.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It was absolutely the best cheap beer around back in the mid 80's. Rainier ugh.

 

[FredH]

In your opinion, ass shooting an animal to slow it down/stop it to then have an opportunity to kill it with the second shot is ethical?

Yes. Killing is not pretty no matter how you do it.

 

[Tod osier]

In your opinion, ass shooting an animal to slow it down/stop it to then have an opportunity to kill it with the second shot is ethical?

The argument being made is that it is pretty big target and it either drops them immediately (lots of nerve tissue and big bones) or they bleed out quickly (lots of big bones and vascular tissue).

I don't consider it ethical because of the potential meat loss or worth it because of the mess it makes to the meat I want to keep nice. I would use it in a second on an animal I hit, but I thought might get away, but not on purpose for the first shot.

 

[FredH]

The argument being made is that it is pretty big target and it either drops them immediately (lots of nerve tissue and big bones) or they bleed out quickly (lots of big bones and vascular tissue).

I don't consider it ethical because of the potential meat loss or worth it because of the mess it makes to the meat I want to keep nice. I would use it in a second on an animal I hit, but I thought might get away, but not on purpose for the first shot.

If you don't shoot the animal it is going to get away. I would not shoot directly into a ham for sure.

 

[bradmacmt]

In your opinion, ass shooting an animal to slow it down/stop it to then have an opportunity to kill it with the second shot is ethical?

I never said "ass shooting." I was pretty clear, it's a femoral shot that also takes out bone. That's entirely different than just sending one up the bung hole with fingers crossed.

Again, it's a shot I've only taken once in my life - it was obviously going to work well with the presentation, range and rifle combo I was packing. There was no other shot available after an 8 hour day in tough conditions. I was equipped correctly to take the shot. Standing there with a 6.5 CM and 140 ELDM, it's not a shot I'm taking. Yeah, some meat is lost. But less than you'd think.

Tracking animals to their bedroom for the kill is an entirely different kind of hunting than what is mostly discussed on this forum. It's a lot harder, and not all shots presented are perfect. That's hunting.

 

[BLJ]

I never said "ass shooting." I was pretty clear, it's a femoral shot that also takes out bone. That's entirely different than just sending one up the bung hole with fingers crossed.

Again, it's a shot I've only taken once in my life - it was obviously going to work well with the presentation, range and rifle combo I was packing. There was no other shot available after an 8 hour day in tough conditions. I was equipped correctly to take the shot. Standing there with a 6.5 CM and 140 ELDM, it's not a shot I'm taking. Yeah, some meat is lost. But less than you'd think.

Tracking animals to their bedroom for the kill is an entirely different kind of hunting than what is mostly discussed on this forum. It's a lot harder, and not all shots presented are perfect. That's hunting.

In the 24HRC link above you said “the only shot I had was his butt”.
That’s were the ass shooting part of my question came from.
Because you said you shot it in the ass.

In your opinion, ass shooting an animal to slow it down/stop it to then have an opportunity to kill it with the second shot is ethical?

 

[Marbles]

Not a shot I'd take today, because I don't carry that combo of rifle and bullet. Pretty simple.

Yet, you felt a need to declare you wouldn't take it again with no caveat of why while discussing the cartridge and bullet in question. Rather haphazard.

You haven't done it so you don't know.

You got lucky. Pure and simple. You have done it once, and now want to claim expertise. I'm not even sure you remember that day 26 years ago correctly.

12-18 inches of snow (and knee deep up the ridge), but less then 4 on the ground and certainly less than 6 on the trees in the background.

3-4 hour slog in knee deep snow in -15 yo 5 degrees, but in a sweater with no frost on it from sweat and almost certainly not warm enough for 5 degrees, much less -15 even if pushing hard. It made me curious about Montana weather at the time. The minimum temperature listed for any county in Montana for November, 2000 is 7.0 degrees. December saw one county hit -5.9 that year.

A finishing shot had to be in the vitals and the bull still had enough blood in him to snort some out his nose onto the snow. Tells me he was not so dead from your first shot as to say it was effective and ethical beyond anchoring him.


Note, I attribute the apparent errors to the fallibility of human memory and estimation, not to intention.