The opposite of the Rokslide special, tooter and quartering gut shots with large cartridges

[fwafwow]

So do I need to reconsider my "no butthole shots" idea or not?

This makes me wonder whether there is a liquor drink (shot) of the same name.

 

[Dobermann]

This makes me wonder whether there is a liquor drink (shot) of the same name.

I'll go you paper, scissors, rock to see who has to Google it ...

 

[Choupique]

makes me wonder whether there is a liquor drink (shot) of the same name.

Whenever I execute my dream of a rokslide cocktail book ill include it. Im currently trying to perfect the BOAL Leg Shot

 

[Billy Goat]

This makes me wonder whether there is a liquor drink (shot) of the same name.

There's actually an ASS shot.

Amaretto
Southern Comfort
Splash of sour mix

 

[fwafwow]

Whenever I execute my dream of a rokslide cocktail book ill include it. Im currently trying to perfect the BOAL Leg Shot

Word of warning - don’t Google the ingredients, at least at work.

 

[fwafwow]

I'll go you paper, scissors, rock to see who has to Google it ...

Too late. I decided there are a few close to the name, but none I can post on here without a timeout

 

[bradmacmt]

I used to interact with Tim Sundles a bit on Patrick Smith's forum back in the late 90's/early 2000's. Patrick was the founder of Mountainsmith (some of you may remember his excellent packs of the 80's and 90's), and later Kifaru - Patrick is a really good guy. Sundles always seemed to be a bit of a macho-man - you know, the guy that blow dries his chest hair. However, he's not entirely wrong about a rear shot - with the right bullet and shot placement the right "rear shot" is very effective. I will admit however, I didn't watch the video on this thread (I'm not going to waste my time on it) so I am making the assumption it's just a rehash of what I've heard him say in the past. I could be wrong, and often am

In the late 90's to 2000 I used the 338 WM (22" barrel) to good effect on elk. Ultimately I got sick of the recoil and rifle weight. No shit, right? But I digress...

On the 11th of November, 2000 I left my truck at around 4:15 am. It was -15*F, and there was around 12 -18" of snow on the ground. I climbed in the dark to a meadow high up a mountain I was seeking for good glassing, and entered it right at first light. The sun rose behind me and illuminated the peaks accross the valley a mile away. I quickly and easily picked out three bulls climbing to their beds on a distant ridge - two were 5-points, one was a nice 6-pt. Since I knew when they bedded they'd be watching their backtrack, I decided there was no good way to follow their tracks to where they would be bedded. Instead I decided to "guess" where they'd bed, and climb well above that spot, slowly still hunting down the ridge to where I hoped theyd be laying.

The hike and climb to the ridge I assumed they'd be on was one of those death marches you dread. Knee deep snow, blow down hell, and sub zero temps (the high temp that day topped out at only 5*F). After around 3-4 hours I finally topped the ridge and began working my way down its spine. Within 15 minutes of slow-going down the ridge I found the three bulls in their beds. They couldn't see me, and the wind was in my favor, so I assume they heard me since one of the bulls stood. It was thick dog-hair timber, and all I could see was the bulls rear ham, and its 5th and 6th points - obviously I knew this was the biggest bull of the three. I lined up on the rear ham and shot. The 210 Partition "whacked" and the bull ran. It piled up 20 yards away, uable to move. I put a finisher in and that was that.

What makes that shot so letahl is it takes out the femoral artery. The blood trail, while not necessary, was incredible. The bullet also mangled the rear pelvis. Done right, it's a competely humane and ethical shot. But it takes a "hard" bullet... Hornady ELDM's need not apply. Not saying those wouldn't work, but I'm more comfortable with something like a Partition or mono.

So, that's how elk hunting can be. It's not all laying prone and killing a bull 450 yards away, completely unaware of your presence.

The proof:

 

[Big_wals]

Ha ha ha that is funny. You should carefully note that most of the recorded kills in that thread are animals perfectly hit.

And that should be the end of the discussion, but of course this is the internet and it won’t be. No one is saying that smaller bullets do more damage that larger bullets. With similar bullet construction and impact velocity, obviously a bigger caliber is going to do more damage. What many people are discovering is that small calibers, with optimized bullets, are doing ENOUGH tissue damage to kill large animals quickly and ethically. And are also cheaper and more enjoyable to shoot, which results in more practice with your hunting rifle, with results in better shot placement….. as you said yourself, guys are hitting animals perfectly more often.

 

[Donjuan]

Thoughts on this guy/method?

Spark notes: While he’d prefer vital shots, in his experience you don’t get them often with large, experienced, old bulls. Often the bull is fleeting. He’s found using large cartridges (.338 and larger) and shooting them in the ass (tooter) into the vitals or quartering gut shots, are very effective and 100% ethical.

I wouldn’t take a running ass shot with a 50 bmg

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

And that should be the end of the discussion, but of course this is the internet and it won’t be. No one is saying that smaller bullets do more damage that larger bullets. With similar bullet construction and impact velocity, obviously a bigger caliber is going to do more damage. What many people are discovering is that small calibers, with optimized bullets, are doing ENOUGH tissue damage to kill large animals quickly and ethically. And are also cheaper and more enjoyable to shoot, which results in more practice with your hunting rifle, with results in better shot placement….. as you said yourself, guys are hitting animals perfectly more often.

In nearly all cases I’ve seen it’s been well more than enough not just “enough”.

 

[FredH]

So do I need to reconsider my "no butthole shots" idea or not?

Well I have shot one elk in the azz with my 35 Whelen. Range was 35 yards and I hit the spine above the pelvic bone. the bullet traveled down the spine for a foot and a half and then angled downward hittin one lung followed the rib cage up into the neck. 250 grain Nosler Partition pushed at a leisurely 2400 fps. I can't really explain it but the elk was dead when I got to him which took a bit because getting through the alders was a job and getting his big azz out of there was a job that entailed an hour of chainsaw work, a long strap and a chain and a 4 wheel drive truck. The second Roosevelt elk I have shot. He was a monster. We cut him up into quarters just to get him in the truck. Thank God I was young and tough. So would I recommend rear end spine shots, yes if you have enough gun and a good bullet. And a good truck, a chainsaw, 3 hunting buddies and a case of Olympia beer.

 

[mt100gr.]

Not taking his side on using a .338 to shoot elk in the ass (tooter), but Tim Sundles seems to have been very successful at making a lot of $$$ somehow.

He's a shock jock type that keeps me tuning in just to see what he's going to say next, and I've watched enough of his vids to be amazed at his homes and his gun collection. He may be full of sh_t, but if so, it appears he's full of sh_t and rich as well.

You've tuned in to THAT shit more than once?!?! On purpose?!?!

He just loves him some him and goes about it in a way that is really fu#king obnoxious.

His success in business and shooting at animals is undeniable, but I can't imagine trying to even have a passing conversation with that jackass.

 

[FredH]

And that should be the end of the discussion, but of course this is the internet and it won’t be. No one is saying that smaller bullets do more damage that larger bullets. With similar bullet construction and impact velocity, obviously a bigger caliber is going to do more damage. What many people are discovering is that small calibers, with optimized bullets, are doing ENOUGH tissue damage to kill large animals quickly and ethically. And are also cheaper and more enjoyable to shoot, which results in more practice with your hunting rifle, with results in better shot placement….. as you said yourself, guys are hitting animals perfectly more often.

Personally I don't feel using a 223 improves my shot placement. I do shoot a lot though, last year was not a high volume shooting year but I still shot at least 1100 rounds or a bit more through 2 243 rifles, a 257 Roberts, 6 Grendel, 22 ARC, 6.5 Grendel, 2 270's, 2 7-08's, a 30-06, a 35 Whelen, a 350 Legend and several 223 rifles. And at least 400 rounds of 22 rimfire. It was all enjoyable to me.

 

[cottonant]

You've tuned in to THAT shit more than once?!?! On purpose?!?!

He just loves him some him and goes about it in a way that is really fu#king obnoxious.

His success in business and shooting at animals is undeniable, but I can't imagine trying to even have a passing conversation with that jackass.

Yea, I get it. But some of the things he says about threatening game wardens, killing wolves etc., makes me wonder if he's for real, or full of s__t. So, I’m likely going to keep tuning in.

 

[FredH]

I used to interact with Tim Sundles a bit on Patrick Smith's forum back in the late 90's/early 2000's. Patrick was the founder of Mountainsmith (some of you may remember his excellent packs of the 80's and 90's), and later Kifaru - Patrick is a really good guy. Sundles always seemed to be a bit of a macho-man - you know, the guy that blow dries his chest hair. However, he's not entirely wrong about a rear shot - with the right bullet and shot placement the right "rear shot" is very effective. I will admit however, I didn't watch the video on this thread (I'm not going to waste my time on it) so I am making the assumption it's just a rehash of what I've heard him say in the past. I could be wrong, and often am

In the late 90's to 2000 I used the 338 WM (22" barrel) to good effect on elk. Ultimately I got sick of the recoil and rifle weight. No shit, right? But I digress...

On the 11th of November, 2000 I left my truck at around 4:15 am. It was -15*F, and there was around 12 -18" of snow on the ground. I climbed in the dark to a meadow high up a mountain I was seeking for good glassing, and entered it right at first light. The sun rose behind me and illuminated the peaks accross the valley a mile away. I quickly and easily picked out three bulls climbing to their beds on a distant ridge - two were 5-points, one was a nice 6-pt. Since I knew when they bedded they'd be watching their backtrack, I decided there was no good way to follow their tracks to where they would be bedded. Instead I decided to "guess" where they'd bed, and climb well above that spot, slowly still hunting down the ridge to where I hoped theyd be laying.

The hike and climb to the ridge I assumed they'd be on was one of those death marches you dread. Knee deep snow, blow down hell, and sub zero temps (the high temp that day topped out at only 5*F). After around 3-4 hours I finally topped the ridge and began working my way down its spine. Within 15 minutes of slow-going down the ridge I found the three bulls in their beds. They couldn't see me, and the wind was in my favor, so I assume they heard me since one of the bulls stood. It was thick dog-hair timber, and all I could see was the bulls rear ham, and its 5th and 6th points - obviously I knew this was the biggest bull of the three. I lined up on the rear ham and shot. The 210 Partition "whacked" and the bull ran. It piled up 20 yards away, uable to move. I put a finisher in and that was that.

What makes that shot so letahl is it takes out the femoral artery. The blood trail, while not necessary, was incredible. The bullet also mangled the rear pelvis. Done right, it's a competely humane and ethical shot. But it takes a "hard" bullet... Hornady ELDM's need not apply. Not saying those wouldn't work, but I'm more comfortable with something like a Partition or mono.

So, that's how elk hunting can be. It's not all laying prone and killing a bull 450 yards away, completely unaware of your presence.

The proof:

I used a 338 for two seasons. I loaded 250 grain bullets and never recovered a bullet . In fact I experienced my first bad experience with a Barnes X bullet before I switched to 250 gr. Sierra's and Nosler Partitons with that 338 which was a boat paddle stocked Ruger 77 Stainless. That rifle was not fun to shoot but it was accurate. I traded it for a wood and stainless Winchester featherweight in 22-250.

 

[NRA4LIFE]

Has anybody mentioned neck?

 

[mt100gr.]

Yea, I get it. But some of the things he says about threatening game wardens, killing wolves etc., makes me wonder if he's for real, or full of s__t. So, I’m likely going to keep tuning in.

I hear you. And there are some characters in this world that are pretty entertaining in my opinion, that I'm sure rub many the wrong way....but he's not one of them.

 

[BreechFace]

Has anybody mentioned neck?

Neck shots are awesome!

 

[FredH]

On the moose you have shot, I'm guessing you haven't gutted them.

What bullet do you recommend for a decently hard quartering shot to go through hide, a mostly full rumen, omasum, and reticulum?

Never said I have ever shot a Moose but I have helped gut one. It was shot in the right ham with a 300 Weatherby Magnum loaded with a 180 grain Hornady Spire point factory load. It did not penetrate far into the guts. Or at least other than removing them my curiosity was not piqued. It absolutely destroyed the best part of that ham, anchored the Moose and it was finished with a head shot but it was almost dead anyway. There seems to be a misconception that a solid hit to the pelvic bone or spine that the bullet must travel up into the chest to anchor the animal. Not so. Personally I don't want my bullets to start a journey through a quartering away animal behind the last rib. Damaging the diaphragm makes it very hard for an animal to breath. Almost as good as a direct lung hit. However My choice of bullet is the Nosler Partition when deep penetration is needed.

 

[Billy Goat]

There seems to be a misconception that a solid hit to the pelvic bone or spine that the bullet must travel up into the chest to anchor the animal. Not so.

Can shoot a deer in the spine with an arrow, than go finish it off.

Many of us like the idea of the first shot being quickly lethal, making it more ethical than just filling stuff up with shots.

A hit to the femoral artery is quickly lethal, but its a low margin shot if you are actually going to aim for it.


I reckon if your survival depends on killing it, I wouldn't be bothered in the least, but most are hunting for the fun of it honestly, we aren't starving because we didn't fill a tag. Personally I prefer to take a single shot I have extremely high confidence in killing the animal quickly, and not making a mess of it.

I'm not a fan of head shots either. I ain't shooting at the sneezer or the breezer, hit'em center and put them in the freezer.