The opposite of the Rokslide special, tooter and quartering gut shots with large cartridges

[cottonant]

He reminds me of that drunk uncle that has never been successful at anything, but tends to have all the answer and knowledge.

Not taking his side on using a .338 to shoot elk in the ass (tooter), but Tim Sundles seems to have been very successful at making a lot of $$$ somehow.

He's a shock jock type that keeps me tuning in just to see what he's going to say next, and I've watched enough of his vids to be amazed at his homes and his gun collection. He may be full of sh_t, but if so, it appears he's full of sh_t and rich as well.

 

[Reburn]

Yet time after time after time after time what I say holds true. lol

Time after time you use so many words you could say that in some combonation they make a true statement.

Saying you intentionally make factual statements is not a factual statement.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

“The opposite of Rokslide” is totally fine if you’re seeing real world results and doing your best to post for others to see. There are plenty of folks here who don’t shoot 77 TMKs at everything yet still provide logical thoughts based on real world outcomes.

The problem is, most are claiming certain things, and based on what they say and how they say it, you can tell it’s with with nearly zero or VERY minimal actual repeatable experience… Because those who are going out and actually doing and trying what they claim regularly, with multiple folks, are seeing the exact opposite of what they type.

It makes it quite easy to decipher who is full of shit, what works repeatedly when tested in real life, and who’s yelling at clouds or trying to “stir the pot” for whatever reason.

 

[fwafwow]

Yep, you cut the aorta or an iliac artery and things end pretty quick.

Doing that consistently is not possible, even if you can consistently shoot the eye of a sparrow on the wing.

Due to variation in individual anatomy there is no way to be consistent, without using image (like an ultrasound) to guide placement as external land marks and even bony anatomy will not be consistently in the same relationship to the arteries. Even cutting the carotid on a stunned pig you stab AND sweep the blade.

OK, yeah - you can get all like scientific and stuff. But if you imagine that the elk is some type of food, like pancakes, then it's OK. But if pancakes are analogous to a broadside shot, what food makes sense when lining up on the ol' bung?

 

[TaperPin]

What’s entertaining is watching your “understanding” and “experience” of anatomy and killing morph since you started posting. What you just wrote about how to do it, is nearly exactly what I wrote in our first ever “discussion” about this- that you argued endlessly about.
Took 2 minutes to find a post from you from 2 years ago, and magically you were saying that you need to get through the guts to the lungs; I was the one you argued with, and have been pretty much been the only one since 2016 explaining what actually happens with rear in shots and that the only way to do it consistently is to effect the spinal cord to drop them and have the follow up shot go through the chest.

You have about zero inherent knowledge. Everything you write is some form plagiarism of what someone else wrote- generally when arguing with your nonsense, just after enough time that you think people have forgotten; with absolutely no acknowledgement of learning that you received. From holding “pancakes” high, to carpenters never setting their tools on the ground, to learning wind calls in broken terrain without ever firing a shot, to targeting the base of the tail in rear end shots.

You’re funny. Oh my god how did the world ever function without you? You invented it! *chuckle*

I first read Elmer Keith talking about in depth in the 1970s, but other authors referenced it as well. I’m sure you will say they don’t know anything. lol

I do like a deep penetrating bullet and don’t mind using it with or without the tail.

You get so wound up with the idea that firefighter city kids carrying wind gauges all summer can possibly get good at estimating wind in the mountains. Some things you say I just roll my eyes, but that one makes me smile real big. It’s ok you just don’t know what you don’t know.

Your comment and others about pancakes has led me to stop using grade school shapes when describing hold overs and unders - some people are too dense to understand it even with visual aids. I started talking in hand widths and that seems to be less objectionable to slow learners.

As for carpentry, I think it was established you were the kind of low level employee the journeymen carpenters made fun of for throwing a titanium hammer off the roof and breaking a claw off.

 

[fwafwow]

You’re funny. Oh my god how did the world ever function without you? You invented it! *chuckle*

I first read Elmer Keith talking about in depth in the 1970s, but other authors referenced it as well. I’m sure you will say they don’t know anything. lol

I do like a deep penetrating bullet and don’t mind using it with or without the tail.

You get so wound up with the idea that firefighter city kids carrying wind gauges all summer can possibly get good at estimating wind in the mountains. Some things you say I just roll my eyes, but that one makes me smile real big. It’s ok you just don’t know what you don’t know.

Your comment and others about pancakes has led me to stop using grade school shapes when describing hold overs and unders - some people are too dense to understand it even with visual aids. I started talking in hand widths and that seems to be less objectionable to slow learners.

As for carpentry, I think it was established you were the kind of low level employee the journeymen carpenters made fun of for throwing a titanium hammer off the roof and breaking a claw off.

This is extremely helpful - thank you. I've been working on a formula. I think I've got the variables down, but I'm still tweaking the order. I'm aiming at inputs for AI to produce posts.

[Fake compliment/backhanded dis]
+
[Some sort of yarn/waxing nostalgic]
+
[Reference to kids]
+
[Much more explicit dis]
+
[Possible accusation of being drunk]
+
[Pancakes]
-
[Substantive response to questions/Concession of any point - ever]

 

[TaperPin]

OK, yeah - you can get all like scientific and stuff. But if you imagine that the elk is some type of food, like pancakes, then it's OK. But if pancakes are analogous to a broadside shot, what food makes sense when lining up on the ol' bung?

 

[BAKPAKR]

With over 600 pages of evidence of the effectiveness of the 77 gr TMK on the 223 thread, how long do you think it will be before several African nations do away with their silly caliber restrictions for dangerous game?

 

[ReaptheHeat]

View attachment 997616

Alright I'm afraid about what else is in your search history

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

With over 600 pages of evidence of the effectiveness of the 77 gr TMK on the 223 thread, how long do you think it will be before several African nations do away with their silly caliber restrictions for dangerous game?

They don’t care and will likely never see that thread, let alone read it.

 

[Dobermann]

OK, yeah - you can get all like scientific and stuff. But if you imagine that the elk is some type of food, like pancakes, then it's OK. But if pancakes are analogous to a broadside shot, what food makes sense when lining up on the ol' bung?

Weeel, sonny, back in my day, if it was just a small holdover, we used to count in dates. You know, like if you need more fine adjustment, like how using MOA is better.

If it was a bigger holdover, we used black puddings. You know, like "Hold three black puddings high".

Although one guy, whose brother knew Elmer Kieth's wife's best friend, used to count in sausages when lining up for a rear shot. I could never work out why.

Oh, and it might have been Elmer Fudd, not Elmer Keith. I get those guys mixed up all the time.

But let me tell you about the time I walked to Shelbyville. I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time ...

 

[FredH]

With over 600 pages of evidence of the effectiveness of the 77 gr TMK on the 223 thread, how long do you think it will be before several African nations do away with their silly caliber restrictions for dangerous game?

Ha ha ha that is funny. You should carefully note that most of the recorded kills in that thread are animals perfectly hit and pretty much broadside. Comparing the damage depicted in that thread to even slightly larger cartridges such as the 243 you might notice that often the damage done to the far side lung is just a finger sized hole, that damage dramatically drops off after 10 inches or so, where it has not with the 6MM's and their 100+ grain bullets. And if you want to see a big difference take a look at the 308 and 7-08 threads. Mass matters. By the way those 600 pages are not all 100% positives nor is every page a monument to the awesome power of the 223. It is a good round used within it's limitations. But there are limitations.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Weeel, sonny, back in my day, if it was just a small holdover, we used to count in dates. You know, like if you need more fine adjustment, like how using MOA is better.

If it was a bigger holdover, we used black puddings. You know, like "Hold three black puddings high".

Although one guy, who's brother knew Elmer Kieth's wife's best friend, used to count in sausages when lining up for a rear shot. I could never work out why.

Oh, and it might have been Elmer Fudd, not Elmer Keith. I get those guys mixed up all the time.

But let me tell you about the time I walked to Shelbyville. I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time ...

As a teenager, I remember once shooting a groundhog off the top of a fencepost with my .25-06. The groundhog was standing on top of the fencepost. My mentor told me, “pretend he’s wearing an Abe Lincoln hat.” I assumed that meant about two feet and actually held what I thought was two “standing groundhogs” above his head. Hit him in the chest and he went flying off the fencepost. The only shot I’ve ever taken on an animal more than 400 yards away. When the animal is nice enough to stand up tall, it puts a lot of forgiveness in an unclear measurement.

PS - great post, Dobermann.

 

[Dobermann]

PS - great post, Dobermann.

Thanks. I'd like to take credit for it, but I'm really just channeling what I've read from some people's posts over the years.

Guess that serves me right for reading stuff by folks whose initials are TP ...

 

[FredH]

Sounds like a piss poor hunter making excuses. People manage to kill old bulls with archery equipment.

Also, a well placed quartering away shot with a 375 Ruger has left a co-worker to track an animal for 3 days before finally killing it. Bullet hit where he aimed and stopped in a full stomach. So, I call bullshit on his claim this is a reliable method.

Soooo every bullet in .375 caliber is supposed to give good penetration? Is it possible the bullet he used was not up to the task? And he tracked it for 3 days! Give that guy credits! Too bad he chose a poor bullet for the shot. Of course if it had been a 77 gr. Tipped matchking the animal would have run down the mountain and leaped into the guys truck.

 

[Marbles]

Soooo every bullet in .375 caliber is supposed to give good penetration? Is it possible the bullet he used was not up to the task? And he tracked it for 3 days! Give that guy credits! Too bad he chose a poor bullet for the shot. Of course if it had been a 77 gr. Tipped matchking the animal would have run down the mountain and leaped into the guys truck.

No one has said a 77 TMK would have made that shot work.

The medium bore crowed does a god job claiming bullshit like Texas heart shots work and making people over confident. See the post from earlier in the thread quoted below.

This happens with Cape buffalo as well. Even with solids. That rumen filled bag can damn near stop a howitzer.

 

[Billy Goat]

Soooo every bullet in .375 caliber is supposed to give good penetration? Is it possible the bullet he used was not up to the task? And he tracked it for 3 days! Give that guy credits! Too bad he chose a poor bullet for the shot. Of course if it had been a 77 gr. Tipped matchking the animal would have run down the mountain and leaped into the guys truck.

On the moose you have shot, I'm guessing you haven't gutted them.

What bullet do you recommend for a decently hard quartering shot to go through hide, a mostly full rumen, omasum, and reticulum?

 

[Quandary]

With over 600 pages of evidence of the effectiveness of the 77 gr TMK on the 223 thread, how long do you think it will be before several African nations do away with their silly caliber restrictions for dangerous game?

I'll tell what, if you want an eye opening experience spend some time in the Africa Hunting Forum. Then you'd know that a 9.3x62 is under gunned for a Duiker.

 

[BAKPAKR]

I'll tell what, if you want an eye opening experience spend some time in the Africa Hunting Forum. Then you'd know that a 9.3x62 is under gunned for a Duiker.

I have heard that African game is tough.

 

[Choupique]

So do I need to reconsider my "no butthole shots" idea or not?