The Montana elk bill from hell is back

[MT257]

Ya let’s do then without making it once in a lifetime so all the people have drawn now jumped to to the same odds as the guys who have not. The best thing would be a retro active once in a lifetime I work with a guy in his 30s has had 2 moose tags already it happens and with his luck he will likely have a 3rd can’t blame him he is just playing by the rules


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Some people are lucky. Other try and change rules to improve their luck or buy their way to the front. Retroactive OIL will never happen-let’s be real. And even making them OIL your odds dont really improve.

 

[wind gypsy]

Odds are always going to suck but I think Idaho does it right. Hard to make MT totally random with people who are invested into points. Doesn’t help to have a pile of people competing for these tags who don’t really care much about getting them and don’t have to give much of anything to put their name in the hat.

The unlimiteds kind of throws a wrench into going OIL but you could make it so they are not subject to OiL.

 

[MT257]

Odds are always going to suck but I think Idaho does it right. Hard to make MT totally random with people who are invested into points. Doesn’t help to have a pile of people competing for these tags who don’t really care much about getting them and don’t have to give much of anything to put their name in the hat.

The unlimiteds kind of throws a wrench into going OIL but you could make it so they are not subject to OiL.

I do think that at one time MT had a points system then went away from it. Then after a while implemented current bonus point system.

 

[BuzzH]

I do think that at one time MT had a points system then went away from it. Then after a while implemented current bonus point system.

Yes and it was preference point system, late 70's time frame and didn't last long.

The odds are just never going to get better and point schemes only favor those on the ground floor or within a couple years of same.

Between my Dad, Brother and I we've been lucky in Montana...between us 4 moose tags, 2 goat tags, 1 ram tag and 2 ewe tags. Excluding a second choice ewe sheep tag, all drawn between 1995-2008. We all still have a pile of points for MSG...but looking at the odds, we're likely done even with my brother and I having max points for sheep, just under max for moose, and I have 14 or so for goat. My 2 nephews who are 14 and 16....they're screwed.

I think a better investment for parents that want their kids to hunt MSG is take the point fee money and invest in 529's for their kids and send them to the best college they can. The best way to increase your odds of hunting the best tags is to just pay for them out-right. Arguing about 2 years old's gaining points is, well, pointless...pun there.

 

[cgasner1]

I did the math on it one year it was around 1000 moose tags a year the state gives I’m sure taking a 1000 people a year out of the draw wouldn’t start to help at all sooner or later


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[BuzzH]

I did the math on it one year it was around 1000 moose tags a year the state gives I’m sure taking a 1000 people a year out of the draw wouldn’t start to help at all sooner or later


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I think you need to recheck the moose numbers...

 

[BuzzH]

I did the math on it one year it was around 1000 moose tags a year the state gives I’m sure taking a 1000 people a year out of the draw wouldn’t start to help at all sooner or later


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I think you need to recheck the moose numbers...

This year 343 tags, hasn't been near a thousand for a long time, if it ever was.

Last year 30,908 people applied for moose in Montana...assuming no new applicants and once in a lifetime as well as same moose quota's.....advanced math tells me that to clear the current applicants would take 91 years....what's that, about 13-14 years longer than average life expectancy?

Get those kids in a good college...

 

[MT257]

I did the math on it one year it was around 1000 moose tags a year the state gives I’m sure taking a 1000 people a year out of the draw wouldn’t start to help at all sooner or later


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You forget to add the newcomers inspired by instafsmous people and hunting personalities that say hey for ten bucks I think I could do that.

 

[Dust Rider]

You forget to add the newcomers inspired by instafsmous people and hunting personalities that say hey for ten bucks I think I could do that.

Very true. Most of the new to Montana people are hunters and have disposable income. I agree with Buzz 100% on the education route for children. Its not just what you know, it’s also who you know.

 

[Heath Hansen]

I honestly don’t want better draw odds by pricing out our residents I’d rather it be o.I.L


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OIL changes draw odds by roughly .06% so you’re point is mute.

 

[cgasner1]

OIL changes draw odds by roughly .06% so you’re point is mute.

It doesn’t change the odds much over night but if you went back the 7 years and made anyone in the current wait ineligible it starts to help because the way it sits you are adding bee hunters every year and people that have cleared the 7 year wait it would take along time to make much of a difference but it would help the next generation


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[MT257]

It doesn’t change the odds much over night but if you went back the 7 years and made anyone in the current wait ineligible it starts to help because the way it sits you are adding bee hunters every year and people that have cleared the 7 year wait it would take along time to make much of a difference but it would help the next generation


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Your gonna have to have a boat load go support to back date something like this.

 

[cgasner1]

Anything other than that 7 year window would require the state to figure something out to do with the points people have no way they wrote a check to reimburse people they can’t just take them that’s not fair to people that have invested money into it


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[MT257]

Anything other than that 7 year window would require the state to figure something out to do with the points people have no way they wrote a check to reimburse people they can’t just take them that’s not fair to people that have invested money into it


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So those that have drawn waited the required wait time and reinvested are reimbursed or sol?

 

[goathunter]

Change it back to full price to apply.

 

[cgasner1]

The guys that started over again would about have to be left in the pool even though they have drawn because the state would never want to give a refund on that money. No government ever does. It is to bad they couldn’t figure out to take some that has drawn and no has say 6 points for that species already and distribute it across the other animals they have points for and they become unable to apply for that specific species


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[cgasner1]

Change it back to full price to apply.

Would suck to take the opportunity from a broke college kid because he can’t swing the money to apply I had a couple years when I was just starting out that I didn’t apply for that reason it should be equal opportunity


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[MT257]

Would suck to take the opportunity from a broke college kid because he can’t swing the money to apply I had a couple years when I was just starting out that I didn’t apply for that reason it should be equal opportunity


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World isn't fair, I wish I could have afforded to front $375 bucks for points during college. But guess thats why it is called life. Is a few years of applying for MSG more important than getting an education that will likely pay off and allow that individual to buy and apply in multiple states if they can manage their money right. I won't sympathize with the poor college kid. That or maybe the college kid should cut back on the beer for a few months?

 

[ericthered]

World isn't fair, I wish I could have afforded to front $375 bucks for points during college. But guess thats why it is called life. Is a few years of applying for MSG more important than getting an education that will likely pay off and allow that individual to buy and apply in multiple states if they can manage their money right. I won't sympathize with the poor college kid. That or maybe the college kid should cut back on the beer for a few months?

You are right; life isn't fair and that's why kids get to buy points. Ironically, the idea that an expensive college is some how a solution is a bit tongue in cheek don't you think. Thousands of kids go off to college on their parents dime and drop out, burn out, or fail in life after graduation. $200K gone, degree in hand and life still sucks. Look at graduation rates...I think its more logical if you want to argue kids should skip college, and buy a few sheep hunts in NWT or Yukon with that money because the tag is guaranteed, now you're on to something. The fact of the matter is without an epic economic global collapse, hunting for the average joe is doomed. Too many people and not enough resource, getting more out of balance every year..God bless the kids.

 

[BuzzH]

You are right; life isn't fair and that's why kids get to buy points. Ironically, the idea that an expensive college is some how a solution is a bit tongue in cheek don't you think. Thousands of kids go off to college on their parents dime and drop out, burn out, or fail in life after graduation. $200K gone, degree in hand and life still sucks. Look at graduation rates...I think its more logical if you want to argue kids should skip college, and buy a few sheep hunts in NWT or Yukon with that money because the tag is guaranteed, now you're on to something. The fact of the matter is without an epic economic global collapse, hunting for the average joe is doomed. Too many people and not enough resource, getting more out of balance every year..God bless the kids.

Correct, the average joe is largely doomed barring some extreme luck in the draws. That said, allowing 2 year old's to buy points isn't going to change that. Trying to create and change point schemes isn't going to change that either.

Bottom line, if you want to hunt sheep, moose, goat, grizzly...you cant be an average joe. Average joe having a reasonable chance of hunting that stuff has been gone for a long time. I would say people in their 50's were the last generation of average joe's that had the chance. Paying for hunts was more in reach and if they got in on the ground floor of point systems, they will get tags.

That ship has sailed...only way to do it now is not to be an average joe. You can't drop out of college, you can't be even an "average" college student. You have to be above average and separate yourself from the pack.

I hate the way it is, but its just reality and its not going to change.