The “mobile hunting” push, vs. the lack of LW/packable whitetail clothing and equipment?

[Macintosh]

@wind gypsy im not certain anything is “missing”. it seems most people captured in what is termed “mobile hunting” arent going far and are simply using mobility on a micro-scale, and most actually arent dealing with really cold wx anyway. That seems very apparent in the responses to this thread. What’s “missing” apparently is a large-enough cohort of treestand hunters who hunt deep-enough to demand load-carrying packs so they can carry out gear and deer in 1 trip, as well as demand quiet and warm clothing that is lighter and more packable. I truly believe all of that is possible, and I think it would already be offered by the companies marketing “mobile treestand hunting” if enough people demanded it…but from the responses in this thread it seems the large majority of the potential customers dont actually need those things.

 

[wind gypsy]

@wind gypsy im not certain anything is “missing”. it seems most people captured in what is termed “mobile hunting” arent going far and are simply using mobility on a micro-scale, and most actually arent dealing with really cold wx anyway. That seems very apparent in the responses to this thread. What’s “missing” apparently is a large-enough cohort of treestand hunters who hunt deep-enough to demand load-carrying packs so they can carry out gear and deer in 1 trip, as well as demand quiet and warm clothing that is lighter and more packable. I truly believe all of that is possible, and I think it would already be offered by the companies marketing “mobile treestand hunting” if enough people demanded it…but from the responses in this thread it seems the large majority of the potential customers dont actually need those things.

I'm likely stuck in my own use case tunnel vision here but a treestand, 3 sticks, saddle, all the other misc stuff, plus even more compressible cold weather clothing, you're just not going to have that much space to pack out a whole deer on top of it unless you want a clown car for a pack. I could see it with a saddle instead of a stand i guess. But what tweaks are we even talking about vs what exists in big cubic inch bags on load shelf supporting frames? Even the people who walk a ways in, i bet the portion that actually go more than a couple miles is tiny and through less than difficult terrain at that. And maybe its a function of most of my actual pack outs being elk that take multiple trips - but another trip a couple miles in with modest terrain to get a deer out doesn't seem that bad to make me want to walk out looking like this:

 

[Swamp Fox]

I'm likely stuck in my own use case tunnel vision here but a treestand, 3 sticks, saddle, all the other misc stuff, plus even more compressible cold weather clothing, you're just not going to have that much space to pack out a whole deer on top of it unless you want a clown car for a pack. I could see it with a saddle instead of a stand i guess. But what tweaks are we even talking about vs what exists in big cubic inch bags on load shelf supporting frames? Even the people who walk a ways in, i bet the portion that actually go more than a couple miles is tiny and through less than difficult terrain at that. And maybe its a function of most of my actual pack outs being elk that take multiple trips - but another trip a couple miles in with modest terrain to get a deer out doesn't seem that bad to make me want to walk out looking like this:
View attachment 954650

Ha! I like his load-balancing twine technology. Tetherd should get in on that. Call it "twyne" so it's cool. Emphasize the adjustability.

@Macintosh, I wonder how this question would go down on a saddle forum. That's where all the weight weenies and pack obsessives who hunt out of trees are. Not on a western forum or even a traditional whitetail forum.

 

[Macintosh]

Even the people who walk a ways in, i bet the portion that actually go more than a couple miles is tiny and through less than difficult terrain at that.

Exactly. I think this is correct. This thread seems to reinforce it.
As far as what tweaks were talking about, I have a few personal tweaks I’d love to see, but really I was just wondering about why the people who are looking for this, are having to turn to brands that are not focused on tree stand hunting at all. My question was less about exactly what that gear would look like, than it was about why the mobile hunting companies aren’t making and pushing it.

@Swamp Fox i agree—would be interesting to hear their perspective. Im not on any saddle hunting forums—mostly saddle folks are weird . I know there’s a solid handful of folks here who have hunted both in the east and west, and enjoy applying some western tactics to their eastern hunting, so I thought that crowd might have an opinion. But I think I was more or less proven wrong.

 

[Swamp Fox]

@Swamp Fox i agree—would be interesting to hear their perspective. Im not on any saddle hunting forums—mostly saddle folks are weird . I know there’s a solid handful of folks here who have hunted both in the east and west, and enjoy applying some western tactics to their eastern hunting, so I thought that crowd might have an opinion. But I think I was more or less proven wrong.

Not to rat anyone out, but there has been at least one well-informed saddle hunter/gear junkie posting on this thread and another one lurking.

I'm not either one of them, LOL. I'm not even a saddle guy. I just kinda keep an eye on what those knuckleheads are doing a) so I can make fun of them from a treestand hunter's perspective and b) to see if I can learn anything new.

Weirdness is relative. Some people say I'm weird. (Gasp!)

As long as I can roll my eyes and walk away from their gear talk and don't have to sleep with one eye open, saddle hunters are welcome at Camp Swampy.

Try to remember: Don Quixote was a hero. --LOL

 

[KyleR1985]

I hunt east and west.

I cycled through saddles and landed on an original version of the Jx3 hybrid that I modified to use exo k3 harness and belt. It, and the crap I use to get 0-20’ in a tree weighs about 14-15lbs. I can sit daylight to dark in it comfortably, if I wanted to.

I have clothing to do it from 90* down to 15*. This is 99% of my hunting.

If I were hunting below about 20* all day, I’d have to make two trips if I killed a 200lb deer. I could do it all in one trip, and have many times if the deer is smaller or the weather is milder.

I’m happy to make two trips if it’s 3* out, or if I shoot a bigun. Very few of my hikes directly to sets are over a mile or two.

Western hunting broke me of the notion that what I do at home is particularly taxing. I averaged over 10 miles a day for 15 total days this elk season at 9000’ plus. I’m an out of shape dad bod flatlander and it broke me. I killed a hammer but it took me two weeks to recover.

Climbing and sitting gear can’t get any lighter or more compact nor does it really need to. It’s amazing now.

It’s my impression that the materials and concepts of construction aren’t going to allow for lighter and quieter warm weather clothing that would prevent me from having to make a Second trip to pack out both those clothes and 80-90lbs of deer. I would love to be wrong.

Make my below 20* gear weigh 6lbs, be quiet enough to draw my bow with a cracked out deer 5 steps away, and pack 18x8x2 on my back, I’ll pay a mint for it.

Not holding my breath. And definitely not demanding it. I’ve killed a couple dozen bucks on public ground with a bow all over the country, and it never occurred to me that I needed better clothing to do it.


The only thing that’s going to change the math on this is if we invent battery technology that lasts long enough and is light enough and reliable enough that you can make heated clothing weight less than equivalent warmth insulation. I’ve implemented heated vest at times and it can cut weight in the right situation - but only 1-3 hour sits. All day we don’t have the batteries yet.

I also hardly ever get in a tree because I usually end up shooting deer from the ground walking around.


I guess you could consider me a saddle hunter. I guess you could also consider me weird.

 

[Macintosh]

Just fyi weird was directed at myself as much as anyone. Glass houses.

 

[98XJRC]

PA big woods Saddle hunter here, but have also adopted a lot of layering techniques and clothing articles from what most western guys use. For me personally my K4 5K works great. The bag is definitely overkill and have never had it even close to capacity while day hunting, but I also use the pack for eastern backpack hunts as well. When initially carrying in all of my gear including camp the platform gets put in between the bag and frame, stick (I one stick) attached outside the pack and the saddle is typically between the lid and bag. When day hunting everything will typically just get tossed in the main bag along with kill kit and mid layers. Typically I have a heavier layer stuffed in the spotting pockets whether its a puffy or my Kryptek Njord jacket. I'm still up in the air on which I prefer as my Born Primitive Tundra really doesn't compress to much less then the Njord, but it is over a lb lighter although noisier. Granted when in the tree I'm not convinced a deer will hear the fabric while drawing as there is almost always noise in the woods.

With that also said I think there is too much focus on quite fabrics for whitetail hunting. You make one wrong move/noise while elk or mule deer hunting and you've blown a stalk. Typically most guys are ambush hunting from a tree while whitetail hunting, so slow your movements down and you'll be fine. The same guys that are concerned about a noisy jacket are also the same guys who will open multiple little debbie packs throughout the sit and there is nothing quite about those wrappers .

Pack wise I've only saddle hunted so any of the western pack companies system has worked fine for me. I could see more of an issue for tree stand whether lock on or climber as there is more bulk associated to those systems. When someone truly develops a frame that can be attached to one of those and a bag to attach to the stand it'll sell, but again there are not that many people trying to get that far back with those type systems that may not make it worth while.

 

[Timplant]

I am very confused by this post, I carry my hunting pack (kifaru or exo) I wear my pants, base layer and a fleece or light puffy depending on the temp/distance to stand, I throw some first ligth bibs and a jacket, food water hand saw and few extra handwarmers and my saddle in the pack, and then strap my platform sticks and bow or rifle too the pack or in hand again depending on distance to stand. the whole things close to 20lbs and carrys nice and I can pack a mature white tail out whole with the set up, one trip in one trip out.... also take it with a grain of salt, but i've avergaed 3 white tails a year for the last 15 years, including ohio and Pa deer....

 

[KyleR1985]

PA big woods Saddle hunter here, but have also adopted a lot of layering techniques and clothing articles from what most western guys use. For me personally my K4 5K works great. The bag is definitely overkill and have never had it even close to capacity while day hunting, but I also use the pack for eastern backpack hunts as well. When initially carrying in all of my gear including camp the platform gets put in between the bag and frame, stick (I one stick) attached outside the pack and the saddle is typically between the lid and bag. When day hunting everything will typically just get tossed in the main bag along with kill kit and mid layers. Typically I have a heavier layer stuffed in the spotting pockets whether its a puffy or my Kryptek Njord jacket. I'm still up in the air on which I prefer as my Born Primitive Tundra really doesn't compress to much less then the Njord, but it is over a lb lighter although noisier. Granted when in the tree I'm not convinced a deer will hear the fabric while drawing as there is almost always noise in the woods.

With that also said I think there is too much focus on quite fabrics for whitetail hunting. You make one wrong move/noise while elk or mule deer hunting and you've blown a stalk. Typically most guys are ambush hunting from a tree while whitetail hunting, so slow your movements down and you'll be fine. The same guys that are concerned about a noisy jacket are also the same guys who will open multiple little debbie packs throughout the sit and there is nothing quite about those wrappers .

Pack wise I've only saddle hunted so any of the western pack companies system has worked fine for me. I could see more of an issue for tree stand whether lock on or climber as there is more bulk associated to those systems. When someone truly develops a frame that can be attached to one of those and a bag to attach to the stand it'll sell, but again there are not that many people trying to get that far back with those type systems that may not make it worth while.

I don’t eat little Debbie’s. I’m worried about loud fabrics bow hunting. I’ve had quite a few animals key on noise when drawing. I know it’s noise because they’re looking away when I do it.

Give me a breeze or humidity and it changes a lot.

Im worried about it in the sense of I wish it weren’t so. I’m not worried about it in the sense that I’m complaining or expect a company to fill a tiny niche for me.

I’m green when it comes to elk hunting I’ve only had 60-70 or so elk in bow range over 6 seasons of hunting. None heard a noise that me or my clothing made and immediately ran away. Zero.

I’ve had whitetail start running at the sound of me drawing with their head in leaves eating acorns and not look back before they’re out of sight.

 

[Btaylor]

@Macintosh just keep preaching. I have been voicing the exact same argument for several years now. As much as I want to disagree with @KyleR1985 about the need for what you and I want, I think he is right that the market size is too small for an industry player to take on. I am in the south and seldom have the conditions to hunt much in sub freezing weather but we still have cold conditions when you pile a truck full of humidity on to temps in the 30's. There is a pack solution that I think is the optimum design for mobile whitetail hunters but as you already mentioned, no one makes it. At least not commercially yet. A good bit of the gear I use is stuff I have heavily modified to fit what I want because no one makes what I want. I have tried to have conversations with multiple Mfg's regarding saddle platforms and small stand designs and all have had less than zero interest in discussing the why or how to change the thinking. I attribute that to many of these folks being a good bit younger which means they didnt have to grow through Baker stand years to where we are now. The other issue is most are not really trying to innovate, they are just making minor tweaks on copies of the same ol thing, mostly to cut weight.

Clothing wise, I like what Asio is doing. Joe and his team are at least working at making warm and quiet whitetail gear that isnt grossly heavy. There are some design concepts that I would love to see included but arent yet. Pack wise, imo, what is needed would be built around a lumbar pack system but with a modular, removeable frame. That obviously does not exist. Yet. But there might be something you could try in the next season or two.

 

[Macintosh]

Bro, you have to repackage your little debbies in the vac-seal, DUH! It’s quiet, they take up less space, and it re-sets the half-life expiration date.

 

[JCMCUBIC]

Most of my hikes in are not that long. Longest ones are ~1.5 miles. They are over tough ground/mountainsides. Even thought the distance isn't that long, lighter is still easier. Even on short hikes up a mountain, no one ever says "I wish my pack (or whatever) was heavier".

I'm ok with the current options on both packs and clothing. The fairly small Popup 28 works well for me to carry layers in the bag, a LW .5 or platform and boned out meat in game bags on the load shelf. Our deer aren't massive in regard to body size, and I don't get all the rib meat, etc. I'm guessing it would be around ~60lbs of meat on a larger buck.

The Kuiu Proximity set works well for an outer layer in colder weather for me and it's not extremely heavy. I never wear it, always pack it. I usually have a light rain jacket and a mid-layer in the bag. On below 32 days I'll stuff a Krypteck puffy in the bag and wear it under the Proximity on stand.

I'm always trying something new and comparing things. It's not because there aren't good options, I just like to see if the next thing is better or fits my use better.

 

[Eship]

I think the issue is that you’re desiring it from a saddle specific company, but it’s just completely unnecessary since there are plenty of options available that fill this need already. I use an ark frame and maniml. I’ve packed out 3 deer with it already. It does everything I need it to. Carries my platform and sticks, has a load shelf, and has enough space for any layers I may need. Something doesn’t need to be labeled “for saddle hunters” to do the job.

For those that think it’s not necessary because you’ll likely do multiple trips anyway, try to think of it from this perspective: most whitetail hunters are not going out on one or two multi-day or even week long hunts per year where all the other responsibilities of life are put to the side so we can just focus on the hunt. Most of the hunts we do are early Saturday morning so we can be back by late morning to be with the family or immediately after work in the middle of the week. Even on public land, a lot of the places don’t allow you to camp over night. If I’m hunting on a Thursday after work, and I get a deer 1.5 miles back, I want to be as efficient as possible with my time knowing that I’m still gonna have to go home, put the kids to sleep, and be back up for work at 5am the next morning. If I take two trips instead of one, that’s gonna add an hour to my time. This is just my situation, but most other primary whitetail hunters I know have the same experience. For those that choose not to pack out, they just don’t go far or don’t get the opportunity to go out on week days at all because they are so limited by time. All 3 of my whitetails this year were 1.5 mile or farther pack outs. If I bone out and do 1 trip it takes me 2 hours from shot to driving away. If I take two trips it’s gonna be at least 3 hours. I’d much rather be in bed an hour earlier lol

 

[Macintosh]

Because a couple comments are bugging me, let me reiterate: I DO NOT CARE what company I get my stuff from--I am not "desiring XXX from a saddle-specific company". I am very aware that load-carrying packs exist, and I'm very aware that lightweight and breatheable warm clothing exists, and I'm aware that many WT hunters use this stuff. That was never the point of this post--I have and use the same stuff myself.

This was a question about business and marketing, not a post about gear. This post was questioning WHY companies whose entire identity and brand is built around "mobile stand hunting" DONT try to offer that equipment (ie load-carrying packs, quiet+warm outerwear that is lighter and more packable, etc), while they DO offer same-category products that I personally find inappropriate or unnecessarily heavy/bulky for the activity as I practice it. It's crystal clear to me that at least a big part of the answer is that most saddle hunters dont need (or dont think they need) that stuff, because most are simply using lightweight gear to hunt the same easily-accessible type of places where they might otherwise have had a fixed tree stand.

I agree with Eship and others on the advantages even for hunting relatively close to home, and given the sheer volume of stand-focused WT hunters out there I do think there's a business opportunity here. But it makes sense why tethrd, lattitude, etc arent all tripping over themselves to "walk their talk".

 

[KyleR1985]

Because most hunters, of any flavor of prey, suck at it, and their ability to suss out good useful gear for the task at hand from crap gear, is as low as their hunting skill level.

Most people don’t buy gear primarily to use it. Most people buy gear to tell other people they bought it to feel a sense of belonging.

This is basically what our entire economy pre AI is based on. That and sugar and caffeine.


If gear companies catered to the 1-10% who know what they’re doing with tools of the trade and made efficient use of them, up would be down.

 

[Macintosh]

That and …caffeine.

STEP AWAY FROM THE COFFEE MACHINE WITH YOUR HANDS WHERE I CAN SEE THEM.

Do not mess with my coffee, mmmkay?

 

[Eship]

Because a couple comments are bugging me, let me reiterate: I DO NOT CARE what company I get my stuff from--I am not "desiring XXX from a saddle-specific company". I am very aware that load-carrying packs exist, and I'm very aware that lightweight and breatheable warm clothing exists, and I'm aware that many WT hunters use this stuff. That was never the point of this post--I have and use the same stuff myself.

This was a question about business and marketing, not a post about gear. This post was questioning WHY companies whose entire identity and brand is built around "mobile stand hunting" DONT try to offer that equipment (ie load-carrying packs, quiet+warm outerwear that is lighter and more packable, etc), while they DO offer same-category products that I personally find inappropriate or unnecessarily heavy/bulky for the activity as I practice it. It's crystal clear to me that at least a big part of the answer is that most saddle hunters dont need (or dont think they need) that stuff, because most are simply using lightweight gear to hunt the same easily-accessible type of places where they might otherwise have had a fixed tree stand.

I agree with Eship and others on the advantages even for hunting relatively close to home, and given the sheer volume of stand-focused WT hunters out there I do think there's a business opportunity here. But it makes sense why tethrd, lattitude, etc arent all tripping over themselves to "walk their talk".

Once again I have forgotten the initial purpose of the thread. It just pops back up like once a week and I respond to the most recent thing. In two weeks when this thread is reignited I will likely and unintentionally do the same thing. I think I’ll just unfollow it to save you the hassle

 

[JCMCUBIC]

... I want to be as efficient as possible with my time ...

This. From mid-October to early November I'm hunting lightly. From mid November to early February I'm hunting 2-3 full days per week and a couple of evenings. Time and efficiency matter to me.

... and sugar and caffeine. ...

Caffeine, protein, creatine, and nicotine. ...and a few glucose tablets...

Wait...what was this thread about?

 

[doc holiday13]

I've posted my bag in a couple threads now. Come Late October, I'll pack warm clothes to put on once I'm up a tree. I saddle hunt and intend to buy a couple stands that I can leave setup throughout the season.

Saddle hunting is nice for finding new spots or area's that have trees that can't have a stand hung from them. A MY puff pants have full side zips and I pack my jacket into the bottom of my bag. Lates season I'll pack my full body suit into the woods but again, I won't put it on till i/m up in the stand. I also have the benefit of being able to get my truck within 100 yards of my tree of choice