The “mobile hunting” push, vs. the lack of LW/packable whitetail clothing and equipment?

[AlabamaMountainMan]

clothing to sit still in sub freezing temperatures is bulky.

Nothing changes that.


Why does everyone want to shove bulky clothes inside of a pack? Strap them to it.


You don’t need a pack big enough to shove a sleeping bag in. Just strap it to the outside.


Another one that grinds my gears on whitetail tree stand huntjng packs. What do you need compartments or storage for? You’re sitting in a tree for a few hours. You need a grunt call(maybe), a sandwich, a bottle of water, and a thermacel. 3 of the 4 fit in cargo pockets.

I would not want to strap any fabric to the outside of my pack. It would definitely get ripped up by thorns and other pokey things as well as get wet. Compartments or storage to me would be good to stash your fall protection gear in. I also hate stuff slapping my leg while I walk so I generally opt not to put anything in my pockets. They also get wet with sweat.

Still, to your point, you don't HAVE to have any of the extras.

 

[Lowg08]

I will add there are ways to offset so much weight each trip and be comfortable in the stand. I’ve been stashing climbing stands. Much more comfortable than these new lightweight options. Cheap bicycle locks and contractor bags. Just haul in before season and move around the mountain as needed. Same thing with stashing gobbler lounges. Even if there is not specific items on the market. There is a work around. Maybe not the lightest “whitetail” specific items available but there are work around. An over sized fleece over a puffy jacket makes a difference. It’s like several
Have said. A niche market and if that’s the way you hunt just have to make it work.

 

[fatlander]

I really think most people focus too much on the gear and not enough on the game they’re pursuing.

There’s no piece of gear, specifically clothing and packs, not already available that I feel would make me more effective whitetail hunting. Whitetails aren’t elk, they never will be no matter how much easties want them to be. You don’t need to (and probably shouldn’t) be hunting them like elk. Fast and light is loud. There’s no two ways about that. Whitetails and loud goes together like oil and water. Walk in to the tree in base layers, pull your Sitka/FL/kuiu specific insulated whitetail outerwear out when you’re there.

I don’t see how anyone couldn’t have everything they needed for a whitetail day hunt, at any temperature, with any reputable pack of 5kish cubic inch capacity. I’ve packed deer out with kifarus, stone glacier, and EXO k3 and k4 after successful hang and hunts. They all worked just fine.


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[WCB]

So we established stands, sticks, saddles (dumb) and that equipment has gotten light and mobile.

As far as clothing...they make these things called heated vests/jackets. long underwear, gloves, socks, etc.

I had heated socks on this year late season in ND. -5F getting into the blind...I literally wore my uninsulated Crispi Wyomings. 1.2 mile walk, which is way more than 99% of guys are going to walk into their stands, so the blood was moving pretty good. an hour or so later feet were "chilly" hit a button and insta warm. Again 99% of hunts aren't -5F (-12F when walking back to the truck). Didn't have to haul in or wear my bunny boots. If I went with all heated accessories you could get away with a pretty non bulky setup.

Also, the "high end" late season options from Sitka and others are really not that bulk and would easily stuff into a medium size pack.

 

[Macintosh]

so far most of the replies are addressing this from a totally different perspective than Im (attempting) to ask about, I guess this alone answers my question!

 

[PaPete90]

My son and I hike in 3 miles from our vehicle on Public. I use a MR 50L Metcalf and he uses a Huntworth Hickory. We stay warm all day on stand. Walk in light, use a good layering system (Barklow) and you should be good for Eastern whitetail.


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[Maverick1]

this is a question of marketing as much as it is of product. Look at the hunting companies talking about mobile hunting or hang and hunt style hunting, and promoting tree stand whitetail hunting on public land. They talk about light weight, low packing volume, longer approaches, etc. Then look at what they recommend for equipment when you shop and sort by “whitetail”. What you get is napsack-sized backpacks that are almost exclusively too small to even pack that companies own apparel, virtually none (I think none) of them are able to carry ANY animal, let alone a deer. Then look at their clothing, and you get stuff that is super heavy, way too warm to do an approach in, with zero effort made to pack it smaller so it can be carried in their little packs, and zero effort to make it lighter weight, to vent well, etc. As you pointed out I have found other solutions from non hunting companies and from companies making gear for western hunting…thats the whole point of the post, is that the companies pushing and marketing this trend are NOT making this stuff as far as I can tell, and it seems a major disconnect to me.

Extremely cold weather = warm clothes. Warm clothes = heavy, bulky, quiet clothes (synthetic insulation) OR = lighter, less bulky, noisy clothes (down insulation, synthetic fabric face). Plenty of "non-hunting" brands out there.

This is not universally true. My firstlite solitude bibs are warm and quiet, but they take up a MASSIVE amount of space in a pack, and they weigh a ton...literally they weight 4 pounds. Down insulation is just as quiet, much lighter, and insulates better weight for weight...but it pokes thru most of the soft face fabrics. Yet there are softer fabrics that are pretty down proof, yet not nearly as loud and crinkly as a hard nylon...and not a single company I am aware of mixes the softer/quieter/thinner fabrics that would be lighter and pack smaller, with down insulation that is lighter and packs way smaller, and then cuts it so it can easily be put on over a saddle or climbing harness, and markets it with those features a mobile tree stand hunter might appreciate. This is just one example.
Am I out in left field? Or do other people see this too?

What you said is: “I follow their marketing. And I buy what they are selling. But what they are marketing and what I buy really doesn’t work how they say it does - and what I just bought is not the best for the application at hand.”

Then you need to stop paying attention to their marketing. Look elsewhere.

Buy the best tool for the job.

Surprise! Wait…It is likely not from a hunting company?

 

[KyleR1985]

so far most of the replies are addressing this from a totally different perspective than Im (attempting) to ask about, I guess this alone answers my question!

What light western cold weather insulating clothing do you have that insulates as well as whatever heavy whitetail insulating clothing you’re referring to?

How quiet is it?


There’s a practical limit to how lightweight, and how tear resistant you can make clothing thay will keep you warm sitting still in sub freezing temperatures for hours at a time, and be quiet enough to draw a bow on one of the most neurotic mammals on the planet without them picking you off. That practical limit is “heavy” and “bulky” in the context we’re referring to here. Regardless of it’s labeled whitetail, or western.

Yeh, I can shove a down puffy into the bottom of a pack, and save 5lbs. No, I can’t draw a bow on a cold dry still morning with a whitetail 12 yards away wearing it.

I have to wear something that keeps me warm, and doesn’t make noise. Show me the garment that does that, and doesn’t weigh 10lbs.


As far as putting it in something to prevent ice and snow and rain from getting it wet - yeh, you’re now in the realm of using normal western style backpack, I guess. I just don’t understand how clothes can’t be packed to only get the outside of them wet, which is the same part that will get wet when I’m sitting on ass.

So you don’t need mobile hunter whitetail tethrd broski pack to do it. Buy a pack from the people who know how to make packs for packing heavy bulky stuff.


I’ve killed whitetail in Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas, Missouri, Illinois and Indiana. Almost all of those were on public land. I currently use a heavily modified Jx3 hybrid “saddle” first generation. It’s just a molle frame. I’ve added exo hip belt and harness and load lifters to it. The whole thing weighs 9lbs. I can and have packed entire mature midwestern whitetails quartered or boned out, with all the cold weather gear I walked in with, 2+ miles in sub freezing temperatures. All of this was done with 10-12lbs of bulky clothes packed in - not inside of a pack.

Before I used this I used an original mystery ranch pop up, and a small hang on, and did the same thing. Multiple times. Never with clothes inside of a bag.

Before that I did the dumb stuff thay lots of other people did attempting to drag or cart deer because that’s what I was taught at the deer lease when I was 12. I got cured of thay real fast when I didn’t have a fudd to judge me.



If I needed to keep my bulky sit on ass clothes dry and burr free to the degree being described here, and I have had those times - it goes in a trash bag or something tougher and stuck in the Jx3 or frame of my pack.


I don’t carry a frame pack up a tree - I stash it 1-300 yards downwind on my approach.


But I have a confession - I hate sitting in a tree. I do it because it’s the best way to kill a deer in a spot. Most days I’m hunting public land I’m walking/stalking. Half the deer (over actually) I’ve killed on public land have been from the ground. Some by design others while “scouting”. Sitting in a tree is a tiny part of my scope. If it were a large part of- I’d just buy or lease private ground in the Midwest.

 

[Lowg08]

So we established stands, sticks, saddles (dumb) and that equipment has gotten light and mobile.

As far as clothing...they make these things called heated vests/jackets. long underwear, gloves, socks, etc.

I had heated socks on this year late season in ND. -5F getting into the blind...I literally wore my uninsulated Crispi Wyomings. 1.2 mile walk, which is way more than 99% of guys are going to walk into their stands, so the blood was moving pretty good. an hour or so later feet were "chilly" hit a button and insta warm. Again 99% of hunts aren't -5F (-12F when walking back to the truck). Didn't have to haul in or wear my bunny boots. If I went with all heated accessories you could get away with a pretty non bulky setup.

Also, the "high end" late season options from Sitka and others are really not that bulk and would easily stuff into a medium size pack.

Heated vest and socks are the best. Especially the pnuma base layers.

 

[KyleR1985]

What light western cold weather insulating clothing do you have that insulates as well as whatever heavy whitetail insulating clothing you’re referring to?

How quiet is it?


There’s a practical limit to how lightweight, and how tear resistant you can make clothing thay will keep you warm sitting still in sub freezing temperatures for hours at a time, and be quiet enough to draw a bow on one of the most neurotic mammals on the planet without them picking you off. That practical limit is “heavy” and “bulky” in the context we’re referring to here. Regardless of it’s labeled whitetail, or western.

Yeh, I can shove a down puffy into the bottom of a pack, and save 5lbs. No, I can’t draw a bow on a cold dry still morning with a whitetail 12 yards away wearing it.

I have to wear something that keeps me warm, and doesn’t make noise. Show me the garment that does that, and doesn’t weigh 10lbs.


As far as putting it in something to prevent ice and snow and rain from getting it wet - yeh, you’re now in the realm of using normal western style backpack, I guess. I just don’t understand how clothes can’t be packed to only get the outside of them wet, which is the same part that will get wet when I’m sitting on ass.

So you don’t need mobile hunter whitetail tethrd broski pack to do it. Buy a pack from the people who know how to make packs for packing heavy bulky stuff.


I’ve killed whitetail in Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas, Missouri, Illinois and Indiana. Almost all of those were on public land. I currently use a heavily modified Jx3 hybrid “saddle” first generation. It’s just a molle frame. I’ve added exo hip belt and harness and load lifters to it. The whole thing weighs 9lbs. I can and have packed entire mature midwestern whitetails boned out, with all the cold weather gear I walked in with, 2+ miles in sub freezing temperatures. All of this was done with 10-12lbs of bulky clothes packed in - not inside of a pack.

Before I used this I used an original mystery ranch pop up, and a small hang on, and did the same thing. Multiple times. Never with clothes inside of a bag.

Before that I did the dumb stuff thay lots of other people did attempting to drag or cart deer because that’s what I was taught at the deer lease when I was 12. I got cured of thay real fast when I didn’t have a fudd to judge me.



If I needed to keep my bulky sit on ass clothes dry and burr free to the degree being described here, and I have had those times - it goes in a trash bag or something tougher and stuck in the Jx3 or frame of my pack.


I don’t carry a frame pack up a tree - I stash it 1-300 yards downwind on my approach.


But I have a confession - I hate sitting in a tree. I do it because it’s the best way to kill a deer in a spot. Most days I’m hunting public land I’m walking/stalking. Half the deer (over actually) I’ve killed on public land have been from the ground. Some by design others while “scouting”. Sitting in a tree is a tiny part of my scope. If it were a large part of- I’d just buy or lease private ground in the Midwest.

Sorry, forgot to also say that I’m walking stalking with all the gear to sit on the ground or in a tree for hours if that’s the way to kill the deer. Same routine every time. I dress to walk, pack to sit, and most times the only time I’m unpacking my sitting gear is to add a deer I just killed walking to the pile.


If I were the type of hunter who lived in very cold climates, with lots of unbroken public land with deep access to large bucks possible, and I’d very much like to be that guy, maybe things would change some. But I’m guessing I’ve got 300+ days hunting below freezing and of those, definitely at least 50+ below 20*, and of those, most involved precipitation.

Not sure what can change. Warm quiet stuff is heavy. And it’ll get wet if it’s raining or snowing wet snow.

 

[woods89]

I was saddle hunting 10 years ago on public, well before it became cool. It's been interesting watching it go mainstream.

Gear for it can be a tough nut to crack. Saddles do not work great in my experience for adding and removing layers, and it's pretty easy to get drafts. Thus most of my saddle hunting has been outside of really cold weather.

I've generally just used my western hunting clothes and pack. The unavoidable principle seems to be that its hard to stay warm up in a tree.

Most of my whitetail rifle hunts anymore just have me finding a spot with a bit of elevation and sitting on the ground.

 

[TSAMP]

I think the obvious resolution is not everybody thinks this is as big of an issue as you do.

Plenty of guys drag deer out. Plenty of guys walk in wearing layers and sweat their ass off then get chills and call it quits and never give a second thought to how a more breathable layer may have performed.

The guys who do think about that are probably on this forum and already calibrated their own "kit"

To me it's just like the dudes saying they kill elk in denim and flannel. Of course you can.

 

[Macintosh]

Yeah, It seems clear at least here most folks either dont understand, dont care, think im doing it wrong, or are happy carrying heavy, bulky stuff around. Im not trying to turn wt’s into elk as someone suggested, just trying to hunt in my own backyard how it makes sense to me, and I see an opportunity to do it better, thats all. Sounds like its a unique enough thing that no one is interested.

 

[AlabamaMountainMan]

Yeah, It seems clear at least here most folks either dont understand, dont care, think im doing it wrong, or are happy carrying heavy, bulky stuff around. Im not trying to turn wt’s into elk as someone suggested, just trying to hunt in my own backyard how it makes sense to me, and I see an opportunity to do it better, thats all. Sounds like its a unique enough thing that no one is interested.

I don’t think it’s that no one is interested. It just doesn’t really exist right now as far as a ultralight white-tail specific system. People either just don’t need it for the way they hunt or make do with repurposing other gear. It’s a pretty niche group to want all that. As far as why do companies advertise that way if they don’t offer the product. I think they feel like they offer what they are pitching, but just are not really delivering in reality. A lot of the hunting brands are out of touch.

 

[KyleR1985]

Yeah, It seems clear at least here most folks either dont understand, dont care, think im doing it wrong, or are happy carrying heavy, bulky stuff around. Im not trying to turn wt’s into elk as someone suggested, just trying to hunt in my own backyard how it makes sense to me, and I see an opportunity to do it better, thats all. Sounds like its a unique enough thing that no one is interested.

Is there a lightweight, quiet, condensable for packing clothing item that weighs less than 8lbs top and bottom total thay is a single layer you could wear a base layer under, and stay warm sitting still in 10* weather for 6 hours?

Does it pack into a 2000ci bag?

Can you draw your bow in low humidity no wind dry cold wearing it and a deer ten yards away not hear you?


No one is arguing it wouldn’t be nice to have. It’s that it doesn’t exist. And you can kill a pile of big deer with or without it.

I have, I think, the Sitka fanatic bibs. There a high loft berber outside. I have a few options on uppers that are warm and quiet. I can usually sit all day in 20* with those bibs. They also weigh about 5-6lbs, and don’t pack small. Dead silent though. They check enough boxes.


Sitka did have a a down jacket that was soft shell. Dead quiet but didn’t pack down like nylon does.

 

[WI-Carcosa]

I agree with the whitetail commercial sales comments, but thanks in a big way to Rokslide I have moved to a lot of western style gear and using it/blending with Midwest whitetail gear to make it work and have it for western hunts and at home.

I used a few different packs and now for cold weather I’ll take an exo k4 5000 with clothes inside and sticks/platform strapped to it. I had more heavy whitetail clothsss, but moving to puffys in the pack and whatever outer layer has been better than bulky suits. I used to swear on long hikes and learned here to walking/kayaking in a base layer and maybe outer layer and changing into the rest at the spot has been great to stay dry.
My gear is now a hodge podge of stuff but I’ve been able to sell a lot of excess and focus on what works for exertion and then for sitting goes in the pack. As long as I’m not beating brush wearing a puffy layer the western gear works great in Midwest whitetail public hunts.

My biggest challenge is I have to drag deer. Wisconsin has a full carcass carried out of the field law (can be in 5 parts of less but head attached to one of them). With that, best case drag I can put 4 quarters in the pack, stuff the torso/ribs in a bag attached to the head and drag that bag out.

Everybody seems to have a unique situation so I appreciate this place to get more ideas to blend into what improves my style of hunting.

 

[Swamp Fox]

It seems like this comes up fairly frequently here, but with the Whitetail Industrial Complex pushing mobile hunting for the last several years, including saddle hunting, one sticking, ultra lightweight tree stands, and public land…apart from the saddles and stands themselves and a very few cottage companies, why does there seem to be such a lack of lightweight and packable whitetail-specific clothing and equipment that is actually designed for a stand hunter that carries it around a couple miles+ at a go?

Because there are very few whitetail hunters who carry anything more than a few hundred yards, or need to, or want to. And if they do, the vast majority do it less than 10 days a year.

I’m thinking of Whitetail-specific backpacks, almost none of which are designed to pack a deer, let alone enough gear for a cold hang-and-hunt in the late season. I’m also referring to Whitetail-specific clothing, all of which is extremely heavy and unbelievably bulky in comparison to Lightweight backpacking or western hunting gear. I’m well aware that quiet fabrics are generally heavier and thicker, and that western-focused gear and backpacking equipment is crinkly and loud. BUT, there are better options that strike a balance, and there seems to be zero development in this direction.

I’m not sure what you mean by “whitetail-specific” unless that involves very quiet fabric for stand hunting and organizational planning for gizmos. I mean, who DOESN’T need a specific place on a pack to stow their swiveling bow arm slash camera mount?

As others have said, packing a whitetail deer out on your back is nowhere near the norm, so it makes sense that the Whitetail Industrial Complex is not focused on it. I think we should be grateful that the WIC has even finally acknowledged that two straps of webbing and four plastic glides do not a treestand carry system make.

So, do you think I am wrong in my assessment? That there is actually plenty of lightweight packable Whitetail-specific gear, or gear that crosses over very well into Whitetail stand hunting, and is both lightweight and packable, while being quiet?

No. There is not. We should also demand something that looks nice. And not too expensive.

Ni!

Or, do you think this is only a marketing push, and there simply isn’t enough people who are truly packing their gear (ie “being mobile”) to need this stuff?
Or is “mobile” only a phenomenon where people are moving, they’re just moving extremely short distances that don’t really require lightweight or packable equipment?

I’ve been making fun of internet threads titled “How Do You Carry All Your Gear Into The Woods” for 20+ years. They’re everywhere, on every forum. Guaranteed to make my eyes roll up in my head. People are packing their gear from the truck to “their spot”, but that’s about it. And they’re still having trouble/can’t figure things out for themselves.

Very few people are “moving”, vs. hunting this planned spot in the morning, and this other planned spot in the afternoon.

Change my mind.

Or is it companies that are just out of touch with what people are doing?

That would be against the rules.

Myself, I find myself gravitating to niche gear, some of which has been discontinued by the manufacturer apparently because they don’t sell enough of it to make it worthwhile, and using a lot of my climbing and backpacking equipment, even though it’s clearly not ideal for my use, simply because it’s so much lighter and more packable. My whitetail-specific gear I’ve generally found to be entirely inferior for my uses because its almost universally heavier and bulkier.

I’m curious if other folks also see this, or if you have a different take on it?

Yes.

 

[Boarmaster]

I think it comes down to marketing and sales reality. There isnt a big enough of a market currently.
Whitetail hunting has a huge market but despite mobile hunting being a new trend its just not how most whitetail hunters do it. Most is what pays the bills.

Not all but the vast majority of whitetail hunters are hunting smaller areas with more hunters. And most all those hunters are stationary. You get very unpopular very fast if you’re out there walking all over everyone else.
Much whitetail hunting is on private property and access is pretty good to stand locations without a long hike.
I hunt about two or three stand locations every year. Depending on wind. I hunt with climbers , big ones , Summit Titans. I don't carry them around and neither does anyone I hunt around. I see deer just about every hunt.
For years I hunted in Southern Ohio in the National forest. Very mobile type hunting. I enjoyed it. My equipment was mostly stuff western hunters might use. Worked good.

 

[juju]

A twenty something hunter hanging from a tree saddle with a 6mm ARC is 100% a victim of marketing.

Most public land hunters hunt public because they can't afford private. Their budget doesn't cover high end gear. Those who can afford are riding ATVs to permanent stands.

These comments refer to the Eastern half where the majority lives.

 

[Boarmaster]

A twenty something hunter hanging from a tree saddle with a 6mm ARC is 100% a victim of marketing.

Most public land hunters hunt public because they can't afford private. Their budget doesn't cover high end gear. Those who can afford are riding ATVs to permanent stands.

These comments refer to the Eastern half where the majority lives.

This.