The Low Bar: did Matt Rinella get it wrong?

[SDHNTR]

I understand this statement and I feel like those individuals who are hunting just to make content to get likes on Instagram, or to get famous so they can make a quick buck are bad apples, which as we know can spoil a bunch.

I also agree to the point I think you are trying to make here. Any "real" hunter should be and feel connected to the earth and nature when hunting, and be thankful to God that they are able to experience something so magnificent.

And I also agree here that hunting indeed is special and there should be a "barrier to entry", you should have to in a way earn your way in. The But, that I would add to this statement, is that for at myself, even doing research online, watching YouTube and other shows, scanning the forums, going to state's websites, looking at stats...all that took hours, weeks, months, and a scolding from my wife because I wasn't spending enough time with the family, and I'm doing it again this year. But that's the only way I really know how. It's still at least from my point of view a lot of work, and it definitely didn't make me any kind of expert. But it did help me prepare as best I could. I wished I lived out west so I could live that life every day but I don't. So I have to prepare as best as I know how. As long as I feel I can physically do it, I leave as little trace as possible, I am respectful as I can be to the land, the animals, the people, and I can do that safely and ethically, then I feel like I have prepared relatively well. If any state were to say, hey we are cutting the number of available out of state licenses by 40%, then if that is what is best for the land, the animals and the people of that state, then so be it. They're the experts and I expect them to make informed decisions, now whether they actually do or not, that may be a different story. I want to hunt out West, I want my children to hunt out West, and I want to make sure we do it the right way.

I appreciate your perspective. And if you are in it for all the goodly reasons you state and not likes and clicks and fake friends, you are welcome in my hunting camp anytime. You're one of the good ones. You are not who this backlash (mine and many others, obviously) is directed towards.

In fact, I'd welcome a guy from back East who wants to come out West and hunt for the same virtuous reasons you stated much more than the Western local who posts "content" for likes and subscribers.

 

[EJDXT21]

I appreciate your perspective. And if you are in it for all the goodly reasons you state and not likes and clicks and fake friends, you are welcome in my hunting camp anytime. You're one of the good ones. You are not who this backlash (mine and many others, obviously) is directed towards.

In fact, I'd welcome a guy from back East who wants to come out West and hunt for the same virtuous reasons you stated much more than the Western local who posts "content" for likes and subscribers.

SDHNTR, thank you. Honestly I only have a FB account, and I only keep that to catch any deals I may be able to get on gear haha! Well I have LinkedIn too but I don't count that the same as Instagram or the other ones.

I hope I am one of the good ones. I try to be. I wouldn't want anyone coming into my state and messing things up just to get some more followers. But even the good ones tend to get mixed up into the bad bunch. But you can never really tell whos who until we start having these conversations, until we start taking action. I believe you have such a strong opinion, just like many others, because you care about your resources, not because you don't want anyone else hunting in your state. And people like you and the others, are who people like me need to learn from. We need to learn from each other if we are to ever make a difference.

 

[jakelogsdon]

In fact, I'd welcome a guy from back East who wants to come out West and hunt for the same virtuous reasons you stated much more than the Western local who posts "content" for likes and subscribers.

Being personally from the Midwest and having no social media at all. I find this to be true in most of my encounters in hunting out west. Once most of the locals I meet and talk to realize what I'm about, they treat me with respect. That being said. I have some serious issues with the new generation of public hunters.

 

[Junkball]

Being personally from the Midwest and having no social media at all. I find this to be true in most of my encounters in hunting out west. Once most of the locals I meet and talk to realize what I'm about, they treat me with respect. That being said. I have some serious issues with the new generation of public hunters.

It's very much the same with hiking out West at popular public hikes accessible from population centers. On nice days, look out. You're not likely to even find parking with people stretched out a mile from the lot parked illegally. The hike itself is ruined by content creators walking behind their preferred recording device all over the trails.

 

[Clarktar]

I thought this was about the Low Bar Squat. Damn click bait titles.

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[WV Mountaineer]

Boys, it’s a lot simpler then we are making it.

Out east and Midwest whitetail pales in comparison to the fun of hunting out west. And, with leases increasing in amount and existence, there are simply less places for the average whitetail hunter to spend his two weeks a year hunting.

Add in setting in a stand freezing versus on the ground hunting, glassing, moving, etc… and it quickly ge one’s real obvious with all these factors, people have began to incentivize their time having sone real fun.

 

[AaronMColeman]

Hunting as a singular term is hard to work with. Eastern hunting is completely different from Western. I know nothing about anything except Western Big Game Hunting. I can't imagine any other hunting being as much fun, reward, as difficult, and as much in tune with my own personal spirit. I want everyone to experience that, and I want nobody else out there with me

To be honest, I'm that asshole who saw it on TV and thought it looked cool. Then I hunted elk when I moved to Wyoming and it was better than expected.

I think Western hunting is becoming more popular because it's awesome! It always has been but a lot of us just didn't know until we saw it on TV. It's like drugs, they're popular because they work...Western hunting is popular because it's great. A lot of us are just finding that out last decade or so.

 

[anthonyjg]

I have been hashing out the dilemma of exploding hunter numbers with family and friends for about five years now. Why have the number of hunters in the west blown up all of a sudden? The Matt Rinella / social media thread is 60+ pages by now, with the main thrust of Rinella's argument (especially in the podcasts) being that social media promotion is generating too much interest in hunting, thus driving overcrowding on public land. I can't help but disagree.

I'm not sure Matt Rinella really nailed the source of the problem, but hey, thanks for getting people talking about it! It is unfortunate that so many hard feelings have come from this; it must be tough being caught in the catch 22 of making a living doing the thing you love while simultaneously being accused of destroying the quality and accessibility of that very same thing. Social media, and hunting media in general, doesn't seem to be the problem in and of itself, as far as promoting hunting to folks who would otherwise be uninterested.
Plenty of people are already interested. Hunting shows and grip and grins are not the problem.

It seems that the "how-to hunt" nature of so much of social media/YouTube content, coupled with tools that take the leg work and investment of time out of scouting and route-finding, have dramatically lowered the bar for entry into (backcountry) hunting success. Talk to just about any hunter for five minutes or more and they will tell you all about it.

You no longer have to be able to read a map, call a local biologist, visit a county surveyor's office, learn basic outdoor skills, scout and pattern an area to know the habits of the animals there (or not), listen to actual animals call and practice accordingly. Simply subscribe to Elk 101, tune in to Randy Newberg, Born and Raised, Remi Warren, Hush, or the Hunting Public a few times, and don't forget your OnX super elite membership and you are in business. I don't even want to touch what is happening to the outfitting business and locking up private land access.

I love learning new things and getting new tools to make hunting safer and better, but we've gone too far, folks. Yes, I'm part of the problem, but not sure what to do about it. Any thoughts?

This is a fair critique of Rinella's position. I also have noticed that interest in hunting is being driven, in part, by the same cultural currents that are making things like farm to table, buying local, supporting artisans, craft everything.... I think new hunter interest is being driven partly by those same trends.

Question, though.... I hear a lot that part of what's killing hunting isn't so many new hunters, but rather the decline in hunting participation, particularly among young people. I think I heard a stat that the median age of an IL deer hunter was something in the 60s (for example). Given that the whole hunting industry funds conservation and keep public land public, don't we want more new hunters to enter the scene? Speaking as one of them!

 

[Yoder]

Hunter numbers are actually down where I live. They have dropped every year for the last ten years except for 2020 and even then it was only up 3%. In the north east we always have tons of pressure and lots of hunters. I don't have any sympathy for this guy whining about too many hunters. It's been like that for generations here.

 

[Z71&Gun]

I have been hashing out the dilemma of exploding hunter numbers with family and friends for about five years now. Why have the number of hunters in the west blown up all of a sudden? The Matt Rinella / social media thread is 60+ pages by now, with the main thrust of Rinella's argument (especially in the podcasts) being that social media promotion is generating too much interest in hunting, thus driving overcrowding on public land. I can't help but disagree.

I'm not sure Matt Rinella really nailed the source of the problem, but hey, thanks for getting people talking about it! It is unfortunate that so many hard feelings have come from this; it must be tough being caught in the catch 22 of making a living doing the thing you love while simultaneously being accused of destroying the quality and accessibility of that very same thing. Social media, and hunting media in general, doesn't seem to be the problem in and of itself, as far as promoting hunting to folks who would otherwise be uninterested.
Plenty of people are already interested. Hunting shows and grip and grins are not the problem.

It seems that the "how-to hunt" nature of so much of social media/YouTube content, coupled with tools that take the leg work and investment of time out of scouting and route-finding, have dramatically lowered the bar for entry into (backcountry) hunting success. Talk to just about any hunter for five minutes or more and they will tell you all about it.

You no longer have to be able to read a map, call a local biologist, visit a county surveyor's office, learn basic outdoor skills, scout and pattern an area to know the habits of the animals there (or not), listen to actual animals call and practice accordingly. Simply subscribe to Elk 101, tune in to Randy Newberg, Born and Raised, Remi Warren, Hush, or the Hunting Public a few times, and don't forget your OnX super elite membership and you are in business. I don't even want to touch what is happening to the outfitting business and locking up private land access.

I love learning new things and getting new tools to make hunting safer and better, but we've gone too far, folks. Yes, I'm part of the problem, but not sure what to do about it. Any thoughts?

We've also had a lot of veterans returning from war, which has caused hunter numbers to spike in the past. Low labor force participation, online jobs, looming food shortages, stimmies. There is every reason to hunt. We just need to open more land for hunting. Whether it's more guiding outfits on private lands, more hunting in wildlife areas, more duck clubs, you name it. The market and regulatory landscape will catch up with the demand pretty soon I think.

 

[mossyoak52]

I have very little respect or admiration for TV hunters, I care even less about what the brother of a TV hunter thinks.

But yet your on a websight whos owner & founder has made and still does make a living off filming their hunts/,products and showing them on tv and social media
Now THATS funny

 

[joel]

It’s nationwide wide folks,everyone needs to get over their mine,mine,mine mentality pretty quickly , I have been from Key West to Alaska hunting and fishing with many stops along the way the last 10 years. Talk about rapid changes in the outdoors! We as a group are at a point where we need to face the facts, we all have become To GOOD at doing the things that we love to do with the tools at our disposal, technological advancements at every turn have changed the recreational hunting and fishing experience in ways we never dreamed. Hate to bust the micro manager’s bubble but imho some peaceful serious round table discussions by everyone we identify as leaders in each respective outdoor community needs to occur regarding how we are going to keep our traditions alive . Maybe the time has arrived where we self impose restrictions on ourselves again, shouldn’t we look up to those who use their wits and skills as an outdoorsman rather than those who measure their success based on whatever the fancy new gadget of the day is posted up for public consumption? The reality is we can’t lose opportunities at this crossroads, plenty of people that hate our kind will strike to rid the world of us permanently. Everyone best be aware or get aware quickly of who the wolves in sheeps clothing are! Look no further than the myriad of laws passed and attempts to eliminate hunting seasons for many species. Many many groups are beating the drum for our demise!


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Pretty well stated........watch for wolves in sheep clothing!

 

[thinhorn_AK]

But yet your on a websight whos owner & founder has made and still does make a living off filming their hunts/,products and showing them on tv and social media
Now THATS funny

I don’t watch or follow any of that stuff. Before you told me, I didn’t even know that.

 

[mossyoak52]

I don’t watch or follow any of that stuff. Before you told me, I didn’t even know that.

Hmmmm ok yeah

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Hmmmm ok yeah

Nice comeback.

 

[SDHNTR]

I don’t watch or follow any of that stuff. Before you told me, I didn’t even know that.

Nor do I. I've been a member of this website for years and seriously don't even know who owns it.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Nor do I. I've been a member of this website for years and seriously don't even know who owns it.

Same, I thought aron Snyder owned it at some point but that’s all I know. I don’t really follow any hunters on social media other than local alaskan guys I know or know about.

 

[Pony Soldier]

When I grew up on the far western side of Montana, we would often meet our neighbors on some ridge in the far beyond. We would often help them tow out their kill or give them a ride to their truck. Occasionaly help them find their kids.

This year will be my 60th season. I don't people any more or even cut tracks of other hunters. I was shocked last season when I took my wife for a drive during the first week of season and met a logging crew, two pickups and 15 razors in a 20 mile drive. I returned the next day and for the next two weeks on ridges near those roads never cut a man track. When the snow hit I never met another vehicle.

In six weeks I covered approaching 500 miles on ft and horseback and never saw another person or tracks. Everyone is out the first week for the easy elk but they thin out fast. When the hunting gets physically tough most seem to gravitate to football and an occasional drive on the roads.

I see a big push for archery season when the roads are open and the ground is bare and the camping is pleasant but after that not so much.

The tv shows might fire up the imaginations of the midwest and eastern folks for an adventure. Locally I see the fancy trailers loaded with beer, steaks and card decks headed to their long term parking places the week before season for a week or two of parties and fun. Meat is the last thing on most of their minds. As one local guy told me - why would kill anything? We would just have to take it to town.

I share info with a guy from Minnesota. His family did pretty well in a spot they didn't know. Their only complaint was the endless parade of razors driving anything that resembled a road.

I'm sure the popular spots with easy camping are drowning in people. Since I usually hunt behind the road closures I see few people. The summer razors are very good about cutting a lot of the roads out.

 

[kf1983]

This is just like the surf industry. Odd connection...I know but very much alike. Everyone who bitches about the explosion in popularity capitalize on its growth from paychecks to social media attention and everything in between. Meanwhile the ole timers (not this guy here) keep doing what's work for them for years and continue to kill/ride in the midst of all the anarchy. Get off IG. You don't learn anything from it and, you'll like people more and hate people less.

 

[hunt-n-ski]

This year will be my 60th season. I don't people any more or even cut tracks of other hunters. I was shocked last season when I took my wife for a drive during the first week of season and met a logging crew, two pickups and 15 razors in a 20 mile drive. I returned the next day and for the next two weeks on ridges near those roads never cut a man track. When the snow hit I never met another vehicle.

In six weeks I covered approaching 500 miles on ft and horseback and never saw another person or tracks. Everyone is out the first week for the easy elk but they thin out fast. When the hunting gets physically tough most seem to gravitate to football and an occasional drive on the roads.

I see a big push for archery season when the roads are open and the ground is bare and the camping is pleasant but after that not so much.

You should come to Colorado. It is nothing like that. The roads and the backcountry are packed from the beginning of bow season to the end of the rifle seasons. Bad weather does not reduce the crowds much, unfortunately. Even hunting midweek only help a bit.