The Low Bar: did Matt Rinella get it wrong?

[atfrith]

Here's an example that illustrates a Stage Agency (CPW) using their social media account to lower the bar, followed by a glaring example of the laziness prevalent in many of the new comers. CPWs response to said laziness blew me away.

As if giving away this "trick" (or at least what used to be) on how to figure out draw odds wasn't enough, this dude wants it printed in the brochure for him. CPW tends to agree this would be a good move....not only in the turkey brochure, but possibly the big game as well. Hold on to your hats folks, you thought point creep was already bad...

 

[TreeStandAthlete]

Here's an example that illustrates a Stage Agency (CPW) using their social media account to lower the bar, followed by a glaring example of the laziness prevalent in many of the new comers. CPWs response to said laziness blew me away.

As if giving away this "trick" (or at least what used to be) on how to figure out draw odds wasn't enough, this dude wants it printed in the brochure for him. CPW tends to agree this would be a good move....not only in the turkey brochure, but possibly the big game as well. Hold on to your hats folks, you thought point creep was already bad...

The game and land are publicly owned, the state agency should do everything they can to lower the bar and make public resources as accessible as possible to the public.

This is where the Matt Rinella essay gets hard to talk about because I think we're all having 2 different conversations at the same time. Some folks, like myself, read it as an essay about the purity of motive for hunting. Going into the outdoors for horn, hide, and personal fulfillment vs making money and bragging rights. There seems to be an entire other group that reads it as an essay about how we need to gatekeep a public resource and make it as inaccessible as possible for everyone, even people picking up hunting with a pure motive. I just can't get behind that second version and I just chat imagine that was Matt's motive behind the piece because it's such a selfish and hopelessly indefensible position to take.

Asking for draw odds, which anyone with basic math skills or a gohunt account can get anyway, to be added to the hunting brochure is not the same as the "CO GMU 999, Not Looking For Honey Holes" posts and it's certainly not what is going to hurt hunting (just maybe goHunt and the likes pocketbooks).

 

[Yoder]

Pennsylvania total hunting sales:

2010- 925,029
2020- 887,221

It really depends on what state you live in. I heard the western states are getting the most pressure. Anyone consider California has turned into a zombie wasteland and people are moving east? Also people recently discovered the outside exists with covid. Outside is "safe". All of the hiking trails and scenic areas around here are getting destroyed with garbage and graffiti. After the mid terms covid will mysteriously go away and maybe people will go back to being indoor cats again.

 

[dreamingbig]

I got off social media for a different reason. Big tech is censoring the heck out of hunters. I don’t want to continue to contribute to their profits. So I am off… and they will let all the T&A continue with no filter.

GoWild is a cool alternative. I encourage you all to check it out. Much better company to support than Facebook/Meta


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Newtosavage]

Someone else said it, but it's a lot of truth to it.


It's the economy stupid.



When you see the amount of money that is getting spent on hunting, it's evident that people have a fair amount of disposable income, or debt.


Fact is people have the money to spend on the trips to the mountains, where before I think it was out of reach for many. That coupled with the huge amount of information that is out there now for people to figure out how to do it.


It's not single source.

I say this all the time. You sure can't tell the economy is doing poorly by the 100k rigs sailing down the interstate just to go chase meat that is much, much cheaper in the store.

Disposable income combined with more time off is what's putting more guys and gals in the mountains. Better info has a part, but if I'm any example, it took 45 years before I was in a position where I could afford to drop even $1k on a tag+travel and a DIY hunt. What some people are spending every year just to hunt is frankly absurd. That didn't happen 20-30 years ago.

The other thing people leave out of the equation is that there are just MORE people than there used to be and especially more people out west.

People who want to blame social media must never have had a subscription to Outdoor Life or Field and Stream growing up.

 

[atfrith]

The game and land are publicly owned, the state agency should do everything they can to lower the bar and make public resources as accessible as possible to the public.

This is where the Matt Rinella essay gets hard to talk about because I think we're all having 2 different conversations at the same time. Some folks, like myself, read it as an essay about the purity of motive for hunting. Going into the outdoors for horn, hide, and personal fulfillment vs making money and bragging rights. There seems to be an entire other group that reads it as an essay about how we need to gatekeep a public resource and make it as inaccessible as possible for everyone, even people picking up hunting with a pure motive. I just can't get behind that second version and I just chat imagine that was Matt's motive behind the piece because it's such a selfish and hopelessly indefensible position to take.

Asking for draw odds, which anyone with basic math skills or a gohunt account can get anyway, to be added to the hunting brochure is not the same as the "CO GMU 999, Not Looking For Honey Holes" posts and it's certainly not what is going to hurt hunting (just maybe goHunt and the likes pocketbooks).

Absolutely agree on your second point. The waters have been muddied and I think we're having more than even 2 different conversations at this point. I do think it's good that we are having these conversations and I find myself on both versions listed in your reply.

I spent some time out of town over the holidays with my younger nephews (young teens). One evening they posted a Tick Tok onto their "outdoor channel" they've created, of them blowing a crow to smitherings while they were duck hunting. I watched as that video got 10k +views in 30 minutes before it was taken down. Made me sick, as they were obviously addicted to watching that number go up and up. I've tried over the last few years to be a good mentor to them when I'm around, and this just wasn't what I was expecting and aligned with some of Matt's points. It was all about the bragging rights and views to them. I can only imagine it's similar for nearly every kid in their age class and group of friends. It's not about getting outdoors and enjoying time with their friends or family, it's about how many views or sponsors they "might" attract on their social media accounts.

I'm still torn on the other portion, and struggling to see the comparison to GoHunt and a State Agency giving away this information when it's already out there for those that want to put in the work. GoHunt has a rather expensive fee attached, correct? I'm honestly not sure, not trying to be a smart ass. Hunting multiple states in the west every year, I get to dive into all of their respective websites each spring to calculate where I may or may not have a chance of drawing etc. I understand that it may be simple math, but for those of us that actually do it, it's really not that simple and there is a skill set involved beyond basic algebra and it IS a gate keeper in itself. Some make it easier than others. Wyoming can seem like reading a foreign language at times. Thinking out loud here, maybe my issue lies more with the individual's reply wanting them to make it EVEN easier for them rather than CPW posting it up in the first place. Selfish on my part? Probably. I'm not naïve enough not to see my own hypocrisy's. We're all learning here.

In the end, I truly am open to exploring everyone's thoughts on all of this, and am glad the conversations are happening.

 

[Nickofthewoods]

Was this thread started in anticipation of the other identical thread on this topic getting locked by the mods?

 

[3forks]

I say this all the time. You sure can't tell the economy is doing poorly by the 100k rigs sailing down the interstate just to go chase meat that is much, much cheaper in the store.

Disposable income combined with more time off is what's putting more guys and gals in the mountains. Better info has a part, but if I'm any example, it took 45 years before I was in a position where I could afford to drop even $1k on a tag+travel and a DIY hunt. What some people are spending every year just to hunt is frankly absurd. That didn't happen 20-30 years ago.

The other thing people leave out of the equation is that there are just MORE people than there used to be and especially more people out west.

People who want to blame social media must never have had a subscription to Outdoor Life or Field and Stream growing up.

How old are you?

I ask, because you mention that it took you 45 years before you took your first out of state hunt.

You‘re commenting as if you’re an authority on what guys who have been traveling to hunt do, but it sounds like you could be relatively new to hunting out of state yourself. So, my question to you is how long have you been traveling out of state to hunt, and how many hunts have you actually done?

Myself and other who are residents in western states can tell you that there has been a significant increase in hunting both resident and non-resident pressure. Sure more people have moved west, but the economy has been rolling right along for years. And, as you point out, hunting publications have been around forever. Taking that into consideration, if you don’t think social media has a significant affect on hunting pressure - you’re wrong. Most magazines, and a lot of social media today is comprised of articles about top places to go and top products to buy, directed specifically at people with disposable income.

That kind of media of course is going to result in increased pressure.

 

[Newtosavage]

How old are you?

I ask, because you mention that it took you 45 years before you took your first out of state hunt.

You‘re commenting as if you’re an authority on what guys who have been traveling to hunt do, but it sounds like you could be relatively new to hunting out of state yourself. So, my question to you is how long have you been traveling out of state to hunt, and how many hunts have you actually done?

Myself and other who are residents in western states can tell you that there has been a significant increase in hunting both resident and non-resident pressure. Sure more people have moved west, but the economy has been rolling right along for years. And, as you point out, hunting publications have been around forever. Taking that into consideration, if you don’t think social media has a significant affect on hunting pressure - you’re wrong. Most magazines, and a lot of social media today is comprised of articles about top places to go and top products to buy, directed specifically at people with disposable income.

That kind of media of course is going to result in increased pressure.

LOL I'm not taking that bait.

I was just pointing out all the other things that have changed in the past 20-30 years.

Guys were bitching about outdoor writers giving away their secret techniques and secret spots 30 years ago. I remember it well.

Things change. Get over it or wallow in self pity. Those are your choices. There sure are a bunch of glass-half-empty types around these boards. The irony is that social media is what allows them all to feed off one another's misery. LOL

 

[TreeStandAthlete]

I say this all the time. You sure can't tell the economy is doing poorly by the 100k rigs sailing down the interstate just to go chase meat that is much, much cheaper in the store.

Disposable income combined with more time off is what's putting more guys and gals in the mountains. Better info has a part, but if I'm any example, it took 45 years before I was in a position where I could afford to drop even $1k on a tag+travel and a DIY hunt. What some people are spending every year just to hunt is frankly absurd. That didn't happen 20-30 years ago.

The other thing people leave out of the equation is that there are just MORE people than there used to be and especially more people out west.

People who want to blame social media must never have had a subscription to Outdoor Life or Field and Stream growing up.

To your point there's also a lot of young couples holding off on having kids. For my wife and I, double income/no kids plus work from home and an unlimited vacation/sick days policy at my employer means I have a lot of time to hunt and I have a number of friends in a similar situation.

 

[3forks]

LOL I'm not taking that bait.

I was just pointing out all the other things that have changed in the past 20-30 years.

Guys were bitching about outdoor writers giving away their secret techniques and secret spots 30 years ago. I remember it well.

Things change. Get over it or wallow in self pity. Those are your choices. There sure are a bunch of glass-half-empty types around these boards. The irony is that social media is what allows them all to feed off one another's misery. LOL

You call it not taking the bait, but I’d call it you realizing you’re not as well informed as you think you are, and have little first hand knowledge of western hunting to add to this discussion.

You’re right about the irony being social media allowing people to feed off of one another’s misery. That can definitely happen, but do you realize the irony of your posts are that you try to tell people who have been at this longer than you have and have seen the changes occur where they hunt that you know what the good old days were in terms of traveling and western hunting?

It’s evident you have less than a few years for a frame of reference to hunting in another western state.

 

[Yoder]

Covid probably may have made this worse. People were paid more to stay home than work in some cases with stimulus checks and the special covid unemployment. That would free up time for hunting of state. My work started allowing a lot of people to "work" from home. If I could do that, I would be sending emails from my tree stand. Instead of having a week vacation you could take a couple months and do whatever you wanted.

 

[Newtosavage]

To your point there's also a lot of young couples holding off on having kids. For my wife and I, double income/no kids plus work from home and an unlimited vacation/sick days policy at my employer means I have a lot of time to hunt and I have a number of friends in a similar situation.

You're right. Including my own kids. I want some grandkids someday! LOL

 

[Newtosavage]

You call it not taking the bait, but I’d call it you realizing you’re not as well informed as you think you are, and have little first hand knowledge of western hunting to add to this discussion.

You’re right about the irony being social media allowing people to feed off of one another’s misery. That can definitely happen, but do you realize the irony of your posts are that you try to tell people who have been at this longer than you have and have seen the changes occur where they hunt that you know what the good old days were in terms of traveling and western hunting?

It’s evident you have less than a few years for a frame of reference to hunting in another western state.

That's all a matter of opinion. Not as much as some, more than others. Stick to the subject rather than attacking people's qualifications. You'd have more credibility.

I'm not "trying to tell" people any more than you are. You have your opinion, I have mine, and others have their own. Does it bother you so much that someone else's opinion differs from your own? Relax man.

 

[3forks]

That's all a matter of opinion. Not as much as some, more than others. Stick to the subject rather than attacking people's qualifications. You'd have more credibility.

I'm not "trying to tell" people any more than you are. You have your opinion, I have mine, and others have their own. Does it bother you so much that someone else's opinion differs from your own? Relax man.

I appreciate that a lot of people have different opinions and points of view than mine, and I can usually see where someone is coming from.

We can eliminate opinion and stick to the facts - just advise how many hunts you’ve been on… 1, 3, 5? I’d like to know because I don’t think you’ve had enough experience to actually have an informed opinion.

You‘re one of the most contrarian posters on this site, and I kick myself for even calling you out on this because I’ve never seen you concede a point. Constant deflection, and you won’t even answer a direct question in regards to your experience because you know you’re out of your depth,

 

[Billy Goat]

People who want to blame social media must never have had a subscription to Outdoor Life or Field and Stream growing up.

I don't see the magazines as being anywhere in the same ballpark as social media. They definitely have some similarities, but no where the same scale.

Magazines you paid for, for one. There was what, maybe a dozen that had about 10 issues a year, with probably 3 stories a piece with grip and grins. Then the mail in your pictures to be published. Now anyone can post and publish.

There's probably as many hunt stories just on Rokslide every year as what was in magazines yearly.


Maybe Field and Stream, Outdoor Life, Bowhunter Magazine, and Peterson's just laid out the plans for their demise, never seeing anything like social media coming? I know it's been a while since I subscribed to any of them, especially since they seemed to really just become an ad, not that they weren't always.
Just started to become really obvious.


The comments section wasn't nearly as entertaining before social media tho.




It's eye opening for sure tho to see the money spent on hunting anymore. I didn't come from a family of hunters, they were farmers. Didn't understand it, my dad always said if he wanted meat he'd just walk out back and shoot it.

 

[Newtosavage]

I appreciate that a lot of people have different opinions and points of view than mine, and I can usually see where someone is coming from.

We can eliminate opinion and stick to the facts - just advise how many hunts you’ve been on… 1, 3, 5? I’d like to know because I don’t think you’ve had enough experience to actually have an informed opinion.

You‘re one of the most contrarian posters on this site, and I kick myself for even calling you out on this because I’ve never seen you concede a point. Constant deflection, and you won’t even answer a direct question in regards to your experience because you know you’re out of your depth,

You're way too hung up on me man. Get over it.

 

[Newtosavage]

I don't see the magazines as being anywhere in the same ballpark as social media. They definitely have some similarities, but no where the same scale.

Magazines you paid for, for one. There was what, maybe a dozen that had about 10 issues a year, with probably 3 stories a piece with grip and grins. Then the mail in your pictures to be published. Now anyone can post and publish.

There's probably as many hunt stories just on Rokslide every year as what was in magazines yearly.


Maybe Field and Stream, Outdoor Life, Bowhunter Magazine, and Peterson's just laid out the plans for their demise, never seeing anything like social media coming? I know it's been a while since I subscribed to any of them, especially since they seemed to really just become an ad, not that they weren't always.
Just started to become really obvious.


The comments section wasn't nearly as entertaining before social media tho.




It's eye opening for sure tho to see the money spent on hunting anymore. I didn't come from a family of hunters, they were farmers. Didn't understand it, my dad always said if he wanted meat he'd just walk out back and shoot it.

My point is that the same types of glass-half-empty miserable sods bitching about articles in those magazines are now bitching about social media. It's nauseating to be honest.

 

[3forks]

You’re right. I‘ll put you on ignore so I don’t aggravated over you posting in discussions where you don’t have enough experience to have an informed opinion.

 

[Newtosavage]

You’re right. I‘ll put you on ignore so I don’t aggravated over you posting in discussions where you don’t have enough experience to have an informed opinion.

LOL okay. Something tells me nobody who disagrees with you has enough experience. Folks really should check with you before they post to see if they are qualified. Honestly.

Stick to the subject. I guess that was too hard for you to do though.