The Future of Idaho

[littlebigtine]

I hear you loud and clear, I am of the opinion that because of the size of the unit and the way the migration works it isn’t the worst management strategy. Might not be the best but don’t you think that resident hunters self regulate a bit a go elsewhere when it’s that “bad”. I hunt a unit in central idaho where a lot of those Boise guys end up at and usually what I hear from them is the only difference between unit a and unit b they see(as far as the quality of hunting) is just a little less fanfare.

Do you think that the buck to doe ratio is so low that the reproduction potential of the herd is limited and that is the driving factor towards the poor buck recruitment? I know IDFG is doing a central idaho deer survey this year which I believe is the first time since 2018? I’d suspect that the herd is still about 15000 strong with 1-1.5 bucks to 10 does, which according to the biologist is adequate for good recruitment. I am not necessarily convinced. I do agree that the late archery feels brutally out of balance…I have also been wondering if there are genetic implications when competition between males is practically non-existent. Also maybe those young bucks are rutting a bit too hard and don’t make it through winter as a consequence.lol I couldn’t help myself.
No doubt this past season was tough all over south-central-eastern Idaho.

 

[born2hunt]

Native here. I like your approach because there isn’t any reason to bitch and moan about growth because all mountain west states have experienced that. I hope Idaho never goes to points. When it comes to deer It’s time to get realistic and creative.

Realistic:
- more cuts to NR general mule deer tags and turn NR to all controlled hunts.
- 5% reduction in controlled hunt tag quota all around for mule deer

Legislature gets aggressive and starts using surplus for our future (yes more government):
- put millions of taxpayer dollars into access yes
- put millions of dollars into buying access to landlocked state properties
- put millions of dollars into enforcement of illegal off road use including better infrastructure like fences and gates. Also, more game wardens instead of relying on check points (yes I believe people are breaking laws and even hunting wrong units)
- put millions of dollars into cheat grass fight

Here’s a few on the Creative side (if I was the dictator)
- any deer/elk/antelope controlled hunt with less than a 3% draw odds over last decade become once in a lifetime (for that unit/species) moving forward.
- nonresidents drawing a controlled antlered hunt may not apply for that species again for 5 years.
- (A biggie) pick 2 species max to apply for (yes that includes sheep, moose, goat).
- dedicated hunter programs to incentivize adult males from shooting young deer.
- shed hunting seasons

Idaho native here as well. It is just putting a bandaid on the situation to reduce NR tags in my opinion. When I was growing up, there was less than 1 million total residents. It’s now almost 2 million. NR are capped at 10% so at some point residents have to get tags reduced as well if deer numbers are truly down and can’t support the number of total hunters.

I live in Colorado now and it is by far the most friendly with tag quotas to NR. I would love for CO to reduce NR tags down to 10%!!


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[WRO]

I hear you loud and clear, I am of the opinion that because of the size of the unit and the way the migration works it isn’t the worst management strategy. Might not be the best but don’t you think that resident hunters self regulate a bit a go elsewhere when it’s that “bad”. I hunt a unit in central idaho where a lot of those Boise guys end up at and usually what I hear from them is the only difference between unit a and unit b they see(as far as the quality of hunting) is just a little less fanfare.

Do you think that the buck to doe ratio is so low that the reproduction potential of the herd is limited and that is the driving factor towards the poor buck recruitment? I know IDFG is doing a central idaho deer survey this year which I believe is the first time since 2018? I’d suspect that the herd is still about 15000 strong with 1-1.5 bucks to 10 does, which according to the biologist is adequate for good recruitment. I am not necessarily convinced. I do agree that the late archery feels brutally out of balance…I have also been wondering if there are genetic implications when competition between males is practically non-existent. Also maybe those young bucks are rutting a bit too hard and don’t make it through winter as a consequence.lol I couldn’t help myself.
No doubt this past season was tough all over south-central-eastern Idaho.

I’m actually going to be volunteering for captures with idfg so I’ll ask the biologist..

I spend a fair bit of time in the Danskins and the lack of bucks, not to mention mature bucks is pathetic. From my observations it’s 1 to 100 with it being a 1.5 year old buck.


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[Hblazier3]

CONCLUSIONS

• Too many Californians moving in, get 'em the hell out.
• The game is there, you're just a terrible hunter.
• Death to non-residents?
• Fish and Game are angels
• Fish and Game just want to hurt our rights.
• Fuggin' lock everything down. No hunting but for one species every 5 years.
• Free-for-all across the state, no caps, no draws.

I appreciate everyone of you whom inquired. You have popped my rokslide cherry. I didn't actually see too many cringe-worthy responses, so sorry for my mocking up above, per my bullets. I have a sense of humor, i swear. I think I can say most of us have a common ground, I saw some intelligent responses that made me step back and ponder my own theories. I guess that's what the thread was for. Maybe we're just on a multi-decade long Mule Deer drought, and the light of the tunnel is nearing.

'til next post.

 

[ndhuntermanND]

I read an article the other day written by a biologist. It focused on mule deer herd health. He basically stated repeatedly that hunting has very little effect on the herd and it’s all about fawn recruitment. Ie- habitat- weather- predators. Good article. I’ll see if I can find a link. I do understand cuts to tags as a short term bandaid to deal with exreme population fluctuations but it’s not a long term solution.
I live in North Dakota. During the early 2000’s we had a lot of CRP in the state and deer were everywhere. Nothing to have 5 deer tags for the fall if you hunted multiple weapons. State issued over 100k deer tags.
Last year it was half that. Why? Lots of that CRP is gone. Farmers are planting fence to fence. Old tree rows planted 50 years ago are dead and coming out.
Need more cover and less predators.
Deer haven’t stopped humping. Just hard to do if they got a predator on their neck or are frozen.

 

[QuackAttack]

It’s ironic, the exact same discussion happens in other states with other species. In Arkansas, they curse “OOSERs” or out of state ers. They threaten then, sink their boats, vandalize their trucks at boat ramps…and demand that special seasons be set aside for only residents.

Game and fish put major restrictions on non residents to make the residents happy. It solved nothing. The same problems exist.

The reality was always that there were vastly more hunters than habitat, poor management of the habitat by the government, poor manners by residents, fewer animals due to weather, agriculture, and pressure, and urban sprawl disruption on all things.

Yet…hunters still hate one another as if a non resident specifically took your deer…

 

[IdahoElk]

Habitat destruction in my area is the number 1 cause for the decrease IMO, Greed always wins over nature.

 

[QuackAttack]

Habitat destruction in my area is the number 1 cause for the decrease IMO, Greed always wins over nature.

When the government enables 50 million additional residents…or border crossers…you get 50 million people needing houses, cars, jobs, healthcare…and concrete pours as far as you can see.

 

[Gen273]

How is the wolf population? When I hunted there in 2007, they seemed to be coming on very strong.

 

[IdahoElk]

How is the wolf population? When I hunted there in 2007, they seemed to be coming on very strong.

They are in the area but I honestly don't see or hear about them very much as I did a few years ago. Mountain lions on the other hand are roaming the neighborhoods taking a lot of deer out in the winter.

 

[S.Clancy]

I have a question for you guys and this is sincere... If there are only 33% of the deer being killed today than 16 years ago, and 12% of the doe harvest, why do you think there's a problem with too many hunters?

In every state that I've hunted or researched across the west, the buck harvest is reflective of the population size and not the other way around. So every state from Arizona to Colorado to Oregon to Utah issues significantly more licenses than bucks taken each year (all mentioned are LQ states). Why do you think hunters are a problem when the harvest decline is proportionate to the decline in population?

Because few have the IQ and objectivity to look at data and actually assess it. They think (and wish it to be) that wildlife management is simply animal husbandry while, in fact, it is a complex relationship between weather, land use and the ever rising tide of human development into areas essential for wildlife.

 

[Andrew12gauge]

I’m actually going to be volunteering for captures with idfg so I’ll ask the biologist..

I spend a fair bit of time in the Danskins and the lack of bucks, not to mention mature bucks is pathetic. From my observations it’s 1 to 100 with it being a 1.5 year old buck.


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Your observations are spot on with mine


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[Ecampbell25]

The writing was on the wall for me. I lived in Idaho for 10 years and saw it drastically change.

It’s still a great place to hunt but central Idaho where I was had a few hard winters.

Mix that with more out of state hunters and Predation… recipe for a Declining deer and elk population.

There are still good mountain critters to be found you just need to go a little deeper.

 

[KurtR]

The writing was on the wall for me. I lived in Idaho for 10 years and saw it drastically change.

It’s still a great place to hunt but central Idaho where I was had a few hard winters.

Mix that with more out of state hunters and Predation… recipe for a Declining deer and elk population.

There are still good mountain critters to be found you just need to go a little deeper.

You mean increase of resident hunters the number of nr has not changed for many years. While the population of Idaho has gained alot.

 

[Ecampbell25]

That’s right. Lots of people have flooded the state from California…

I don’t blame them.

But I decided it was time to move to the last great place…. Alaska

 

[repins05]

I am surprised that more blame is not put on predators. Inparticular, wolves. Since the introduction of wolves in Oregon, there has been a steady decline to our Muley numbers. Yes there are other factors involved, however I believe there is a direct correlation to low Muley numbers now because of a reintroduced predator in the current ecosystem. Every hunter you talk to here agrees.

 

[IdahoBeav]

I am surprised that more blame is not put on predators. Inparticular, wolves. Since the introduction of wolves in Oregon, there has been a steady decline to our Muley numbers. Yes there are other factors involved, however I believe there is a direct correlation to low Muley numbers now because of a reintroduced predator in the current ecosystem. Every hunter you talk to here agrees.

Not all units in Idaho have wolves, and all of the OTC units are also declining in hunt quality. The wolves are a problem, but they are not the reason why hunters are killing 15k/yr less deer than 8 years ago.

Oregon has the same problem Idaho does- too many tags and too many people killing small bucks. I hunted a 5 pt Oregon unit last season. About half of the camps had bucks hanging, and I didn't see a single one that had more than 3 points on one side, and nothing was even close to 20" wide.

 

[repins05]

Oregon is highly regulated. It is not a to many tag problem. The first ”official“ pack of wolves in Oregon was around 2008. Combine this with no hounds or baiting for bears and lions. A few hard winters. I don’t think the timing is coincidence in regards to what hunting is now in Oregon on the east side.

“my guess” is that wolves have made a substantial impact in Idaho as well.

 

[IdahoBeav]

There most certainly are too many mule deer tags issued in Oregon. Go look up ODFW's management objective and buck-to-doe ratios, both target goals and current estimated numbers. It's laughable how low their MO numbers are, yet they are below it in almost every unit. They continue to issue a ton of tags. Most of the hunts are 50%± success forked horn slaughters. It is very difficult to find a 4.5+ year old buck in Oregon. It's not much easier here in Idaho on OTC. We just have terrain that is more difficult to hunt, so if you're willing to work for it, they can be found.

 

[repins05]

I know the numbers in and out. the majority of units are highly regulated. If you are out of state and hunted in Oregon with 5 points you are hunting a unit with a high amount of resident tags in that unit. Are saying that there is a unit with 50 percent success rate? Or 50 percent of kills are forky? because if it is a 50 percent success rate and takes a resident 1 or 2 points I will move right on over there.

as far as terrain ….. I have always felt like Idaho was easier to hunt. A lot more area to glass and shoot.

anyway I still believe wolves are a large contributing factor to declining populations. Depending what study you look at … liberal study stating a single wolf will take 15 deer a year …. Conservative study stating 50 a year ….. multiplied by probably a low inaccurate count of wolf populations - we are looking at thousands of deer if not tens of thousands taken by wolves alone.