The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom

[JackButler]

I touched on this in another post, but will re-state it for emphasis....

Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet, and that is all.

Jesus claimed he was God. He preached for three years he was God. He behaved like he was God. Not a prophet of God.

So either Jesus is right, or he is wrong. If he was right, and is God, then saying he is just a prophet is blasphemy and incorrect. If he was not God, and was just a prophet, then he was a terrible prophet and should not be elevated to the level of a prophet for another religion because he was coo-coo for cocopuffs.

So is faith in David Koresh or jim Jones on the same level as a muslim's faith in Mohammed, misdirected and incorrect? As a person who believes Jesus was divine, my answer is 100% yes.

And there is nothing contradictory about the Bible like we find about the Islamic teaching about Jesus. So you are comparing apples to grapes.

So it’s just the typical “my religion is the only true one rhetoric”.
Also I’d say there is quite a bit contradictory about the Bible, and plenty of ridiculous stuff that when brought up, is just excused away or is said to be not taken literally.

 

[Awfulhunter]

Evolution is the theory of how plants and animals have evolved and continue to evolve over the eons, billions of years. There is lots of scientific evidence of evolution, however there isn’t any scientific evidence linking non humans to humans.

Check out the Smithsonian webpage on the matter: https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence

They cite 6,000 "early human" fossils from the past 6 million years and show a genealogical family tree of early human human evolution. Super interesting stuff!!

 

[WV Mountaineer]

But

But they ARE believers. They just believe in something slightly different than you. “Proof of Mohammed is found in the hearts of worshipping Muslims.” Is just as legitimate.

Man, argue this in the mirror. I’m not going to appease you.

 

[Jason Snyder]

So it’s just the typical “my religion is the only true one rhetoric”.
Also I’d say there is quite a bit contradictory about the Bible, and plenty of ridiculous stuff that when brought up, is just excused away or is said to be not taken literally.

Completely your prerogative to feel this way.

 

[Jason Snyder]

“Then a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, my Chosen One. Listen to him.” When the voice finished, Jesus was there alone. They didn’t tell anyone at that time what they had seen.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭9‬:‭35‬-‭36‬ ‭NLT‬‬

 

[go_deep]

John answered them all, saying, “I am baptizing you with water, but one mightier than I is coming. I am not worthy to loosen the thongs of his sandals. He will baptize you with the holy Spirit and fire.
Luke 3:16

 

[Beagle1]

We are to share the gospel, but, when it becomes apparent that the gospel is not welcome, we are to move on. We are responsible to share the good news; we are not responsible for people’s response to the good news. Pigs don’t appreciate pearls, and some people don’t appreciate what Christ has done for them. Our job is not to force conversions or cram the gospel down people’s throats; there’s no sense in preaching the value of pearls to swine. Jesus’ instruction to His apostles on how to handle rejection was to simply go elsewhere. There are other people who need to hear the gospel, and they are ready to hear it.

I was wondering when it would come to this.

It’s interesting that you quote Jesus’ “pearls before swine” as a reason to avoid people who challenge your beliefs. That’s basically a lazy way of avoiding any opposing evidence, labeling skeptics as “swine” or “dogs” so their points can be ignored without having to address them. The trouble is, almost every religion has a version of this logic. Muslims, for example, can just as easily quote the Quran to say non-Muslims reject the truth, so there’s no point in continued discussion. It’s a standard religious way to insulate faith from scrutiny, but it’s not a convincing way to show that your version of the truth is actually true.

So if I question your claims, I’m a pig trampling pearls. Fair enough. But from my side, it looks like you’re the one digging around in the mud, pulling up subjective pearls only you can see. I guess we both think the other is in the pen.

 

[Beagle1]

To a non believer, yes it would.

People who don’t know Christ are looking for a certainty before they place their faith in him. That’s not the way it works. The commitment has to be made first. Then comes the certainty.


That goes for eating a delicious steak to certifying your eternal existence. You first recognize God. Then you chose to pursue him or set back and wait on him. Ones a sure road to eternity in heaven and ones a sure road to never developing a relationship with him.

Free will. It has its perks and it has its responsibilities. The choice is each of ours to make. That’s the way God intended it.

Faith before proof works great for someone who already believes their faith is true, but for someone outside of it, it’s basically a request to suspend all skepticism until after the buy in.

Your steak analogy needs to be tweaked. Non believers have actually seen steak, smelled it, and watched other people eat it. With God, you’re asking them to accept the plate while it’s still under a cover, trust that it’s steak and only taste it after they’ve signed a forever dining contract.

Free will has been discussed at length in numerous other posts .

 

[Beagle1]

Does it?

You need to ask them.

 

[JGRaider]

I was wondering when it would come to this.

It’s interesting that you quote Jesus’ “pearls before swine” as a reason to avoid people who challenge your beliefs. That’s basically a lazy way of avoiding any opposing evidence, labeling skeptics as “swine” or “dogs” so their points can be ignored without having to address them. The trouble is, almost every religion has a version of this logic. Muslims, for example, can just as easily quote the Quran to say non-Muslims reject the truth, so there’s no point in continued discussion. It’s a standard religious way to insulate faith from scrutiny, but it’s not a convincing way to show that your version of the truth is actually true.

So if I question your claims, I’m a pig trampling pearls. Fair enough. But from my side, it looks like you’re the one digging around in the mud, pulling up subjective pearls only you can see. I guess we both think the other is in the pen.

Yes, swine is a perfect description of you in this context.

 

[Beagle1]

Archeology and historical records prove at least some of the Bible is based on real people and places. All of it can't be proved but a lot of the New Testament is backed by history. Lord of the rings isn't a fair comparison. For a non believer it would be more like a historical fiction based in Isreal, Egypt, Syria.

Sure, archaeology and history confirm that some people and places in the Bible existed but the same is true for historical fiction. You can set a novel in real Israel, Egypt, or Syria and even include actual historical figures, and it can still be entirely fictional in its events. So verifying the setting isn’t the same as verifying that the miracles or supernatural claims actually happened.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

Faith before proof works great for someone who already believes their faith is true, but for someone outside of it, it’s basically a request to suspend all skepticism until after the buy in.

Your steak analogy needs to be tweaked. Non believers have actually seen steak, smelled it, and watched other people eat it. With God, you’re asking them to accept the plate while it’s still under a cover, trust that it’s steak and only taste it after they’ve signed a forever dining contract.

Free will has been discussed at length in numerous other posts .

Hey atheists on this thread. I don’t need to tweak anything. Nor, am I trying to convert you. Free will is indeed required. And, it’s a responsibility that rest on each individual.


As I stated first. It’s something you must commit to through faith. If that’s not for you then don’t shoot the messenger. Just prepare to burn in hell.

Nobody is going to say something that’s going to awaken you to the God of the Bible. That’s a journey you have to take. So, stop critiquing my words as if I’m trying to convince you of something. I plainly stated that’s not how it works.

 

[Beagle1]

How does evolution fit within the Church?

It’s not by coincidence that there was a new book released yesterday called Darwin and Doctrine. If you’d like to read it, but don’t want to buy it-shoot me a message and I’ll send a copy to you.

Darwin and Doctrine: The Compatibility of Evolution and Catholicism

In

book.wordonfire.org

Catholicism has room for theistic evolution but it still requires belief in certain non-negotiables, like the special creation of the soul and humanity’s special relationship with God. The scientific side stops at the point where this doctrine begins: Adam and Eve, original sin, and a God-given soul that isn’t a product of biology.

 

[Beagle1]

Hey atheists on this thread. I don’t need to tweak anything. Nor, am I trying to convert you. Free will is indeed required. And, it’s a responsibility that rest on each individual.


As I stated first. It’s something you must commit to through faith. If that’s not for you then don’t shoot the messenger. Just prepare to burn in hell.

Nobody is going to say something that’s going to awaken you to the God of the Bible. That’s a journey you have to take. So, stop critiquing my words as if I’m trying to convince you of something. I plainly stated that’s not how it works.

I critiqued the point you made with your words as believers have done with mine. Free will has been discussed before.

 

[go_deep]

@Beagle1 What do you hope to get out of this thread?
I don't want to put thoughts and words in your mouth or mind, but me personally I don't do anything for nothing, so if I'm putting effort into something, I either want to learn something, be entertained, provide information, at work earn money, become better at a skill.
I just want to know, what is your draw to this thread to come back here day after day?

 

[Diamondback]

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

 

[go_deep]

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

And in Luke 4: 5-6 we find out the world is the devil's to rule, so not only do many not believe in him, they are chasing the things of the world, things of the devil.

 

[Beagle1]

@Beagle1 What do you hope to get out of this thread?
I don't want to put thoughts and words in your mouth or mind, but me personally I don't do anything for nothing, so if I'm putting effort into something, I either want to learn something, be entertained, provide information, at work earn money, become better at a skill.
I just want to know, what is your draw to this thread to come back here day after day?

I’ve answered that question many times before here. It’s kind of interesting that I respond to the same duplicative believers’ points and get asked the same question numerous times about my purpose, respond to them then get criticized for saying the same thing over and over.