The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom

[JGRaider]

The point in your first paragraph is right. I meant God driven watching and punishment. The secular aspect you raised I agree with.

The idea that morality can only come from the Bible assumes there were no moral codes before the Bible or outside of it. That’s not true. Hammurabi’s Code is one. That was around centuries earlier and it didn’t come with any stone tablets from Sinai.

Also, different cultures across time have developed very similar moral rules.

There will be lots of "morally good" people in hell.

 

[CRJR45]

I love it, even now we have atheists arguing about doing good because it is good.

As if there is anything called "good" in their world...if this is all just one big cosmic mistake (big bang theory) then who is to say my definition of good is the same as the next persons? How can anyone condemn anyone else for kicking kittens, or snacking on their pets, or killing babies, if there is no basis for what is Good?

And do not come here saying society tells us wha is good and what isn't. Societies have always chosen the wrong paths time and time again as CRJ has shown us. Yet he condemns those who perpetrated "bad" in the name of religion as if it truly were BAD (and I am not saying it wasn't bad, but in the atheist mindset, how is that judgement made?).

How do you come to that conclusion? What is the basis for your morality if there is no God?

Those whom assume are doomed to fail . I'm an Agnostic , look it up . I want to believe in a God or Intelligent creation , but the proof is not there .
And I disagree about society always failing without god . The American Indians did just fine before we got here .
Morality has little to do with god .

Morality refers to a set of principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior. It's a system of values that guides individuals and societies in making decisions and judgments about what is considered acceptable or unacceptable conduct. Morality is often intertwined with concepts of ethics, social norms, and cultural values.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

Those whom assume are doomed to fail . I'm an Agnostic , look it up . I want to believe in a God or Intelligent creation , but the proof is not there .
And I disagree about society always failing without god . The American Indians did just fine before we got here .
Morality has little to do with god .

Morality refers to a set of principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior. It's a system of values that guides individuals and societies in making decisions and judgments about what is considered acceptable or unacceptable conduct. Morality is often intertwined with concepts of ethics, social norms, and cultural values.

Now wait a second, you just condemned a bunch of religious people for perpetrating a bunch of "EVIL THINGS" in the name of religion and use that as a basis to say there certainly can be no god if this is done in his name, and you are giving a pass to the American Indians for killing and stealing, and butchering other competing tribes and people as "they did just fine"?

I love the world you live in, double standards and hypocrisy must reign supreme in the world of agnosticism.

You keep dodging the question (seems to be a pattern with you), what is your basis for GOOD if there is no God?

 

[CRJR45]

Now wait a second, you just condemned a bunch of religious people for perpetrating a bunch of "EVIL THINGS" in the name of religion and use that as a basis to say there certainly can be no god if this is done in his name, and you are giving a pass to the American Indians for killing and stealing, and butchering other competing tribes and people as "they did just fine"?

I love the world you live in, double standards and hypocrisy must reign supreme in the world of agnosticism.

You keep dodging the question (seems to be a pattern with you), what is your basis for GOOD if there is no God?

OK , I'm done with you . I gave the explanation of morality as a answer to your question .
My example of the American Indians was to point out they lived a perfectly fine life without your God . I never said they didn't kill and have wars . I said they were a perfectly functioning society without Christianity.
You twist words around to make then say what you want instead of actually looking for the meaning implied.
You have a nice day , bye.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

Morality refers to a set of principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior. It's a system of values that guides individuals and societies in making decisions and judgments about what is considered acceptable or unacceptable conduct. Morality is often intertwined with concepts of ethics, social norms, and cultural values.

Please do not try to equate morality with what is Good and Evil. It can be moral to kill in war or in self defense. It is never GOOD to take a human life.

Also, according to your definition, the practice of child sacrifice (which has been so vehemently condemned already) is a moral act if the society at large believes it is acceptable. Think the mayans, or many other early nations of the world. Is that moral? Do morals change? You were very harsh against God killing children in the world wide flood because the world was wicked and evil, yet according to your definition, you are now saying this act is considered moral by some societies...so who are you to condemn it? Are you trying to be god?

Again, you are talking in circles and I am not sure you even realize it.

 

[NVUplandHunter]

OK , I'm done with you . I gave the explanation of morality as a answer to your question .
My example of the American Indians was to point out they lived a perfectly fine life without your God . I never said they didn't kill and have wars . I said they were a perfectly functioning society without Christianity.
You twist words around to make then say what you want instead of actually looking for the meaning implied.
You have a nice day , bye.

dude you said you were bowing out of the discussion like 2 pages ago... yet here you are.. still stirring the pot.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

OK , I'm done with you . I gave the explanation of morality as a answer to your question .
My example of the American Indians was to point out they lived a perfectly fine life without your God . I never said they didn't kill and have wars . I said they were a perfectly functioning society without Christianity.
You twist words around to make then say what you want instead of actually looking for the meaning implied.
You have a nice day , bye.

I am not trying to be mean at all, but you said you were done and have come back and responded multiple times, so don't hold it against me if I don't believe you.

I asked what the basis of Good was without God. Not the definition of morality. If you think morality and Good are the same,, you have some learning to do. Anyway, I am not twisting anything you wrote. You condemn one people group for killing, and say another is fine for killing. You are the one twisting your logic to try and make a point, and sadly it just isn't happening. As I have said, you are talking in circles and do not even realize it.

I do wish you a happy day and I mean that with all sincerity. I hope I scratched a nerve in you, and hope the Holy Spirit can fill that void with some understanding.

I won't respond to you anymore. I am sorry it has gotten to this. Just trying to show you some truth.

 

[USADPT]

Good to see some faithful discussion here.

1689 Reformed Baptist checking in

 

[KenLee]

Def

Muhammad was a pedophile, so no, nothing he said is worth my time, or worthy of comparison. Consider the source.

Definitely pattern with those peddling religion

 

[go_deep]

The hate, anger, and resentment definitely has a strangle hold on some of you.
I pray that someday you can break the chains that the devil has on you.
Forgiveness is freeing a slave, and that slave is you. Ask me how I know.

 

[eddielasvegas]

sorry i left out the priests that do awful things with kids and the bishops that cover it up. i dont agree with those things either. but its not done by God, its done by flawed humans.

eddie,

I’ve read your comments and know you’re a catholic hating person. You’ve made that clear. I don’t really care if you hate me or my church. You’re not going to turn me away. I’m happy to explain if you’re willing to listen in absolute good faith but sadly, I doubt that’s going to happen. You’ve made you stance clear on the Catholics and I’m not going to debate with someone like that.

Make your assumption of what sort of underlying plots I have, don’t care. You’re twisting everything you can and it doesn’t bother me.

Best wishes Eddie.

I did not know stating facts translated to hate. OTOH, I read in this thread that "fear" is not really fear like we know it, but is really "respect" when it comes to god.

Hate is such a strong word, but really, really dislike is more accurate.

What is accurate is how I feel about your church (islam more so) and how a religion have such a strong hold on a person to make them blind to the evils of their religion regardless of the number of atrocities offered as examples of evil. OTOH, the promise of eternal is strong and if I believed in it, I just maybe would cast all evidence aside to ensure I had my best shot at the promised land when I shuffled off this mortal coil.

Life long and prosper @NVUplandHunter


Eddie

 

[Yoder]

You are missing the point. If the historical and archeological evidence you mention is true that doesn’t mean Jesus is God and the miracles happened. You can read a historical novel that has many true events in it but that doesn’t mean the novel is true.

I literally said that if you actually read my post. I said the places and people can be proven, the rest is up to you if you believe it or not.

 

[Hill Difficulty]

Good to see some faithful discussion here.

1689 Reformed Baptist checking in

Thanks for putting your hand up! Starting to think I was the only reformed guy here.

 

[taskswap]

Wow, you people are still going on about all this? I thought this was a hunting forum. I disengaged like 20 PAGES ago and it doesn't look like I missed much.