The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom

[dylanvb]

“Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.”
‭‭I Timothy‬ ‭6‬:‭12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[rabbithuntr]

I have answered the ignorance issue you raised in my prior posts.

You mention evidence of miracles supporting the Bible but these are often anecdotal, highly subjective or hotly disputed. You state the evidence of miracles is strong and growing. If that was true your belief would not require faith it would be universally accepted which is certainly not the case 2000 years later.

You cited the nonbelievers' pride as the main reason for their disbelief, failing to understand pride afflicts the believers as well as the nonbelievers. Assuming nonbelievers are too proud to see what you believe is itself a form of that pride.

So much of the world is blinded by the lies of the devil. In this passage Jesus is speaking to the religious elites who rejected him after seeing many miracles.
“Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8‬:‭43‬-‭45‬ ‭

 

[Texasbuckeye]

@Beagle1 would you believe a miracle if you heard of one? I have one if you want to hear about it?

Will it make you believe if you hear it?

 

[socoalt]

I truly have enjoyed this thread , it makes me see the troubles in the world are all man made . The history of the world is the history of religions . If you think one man made religion is better than the 3,999 other religions , you don't see the truth , you see what you want to see .
You believe in a god because it makes you feel superior to those that don't , and this thread is proof of that , all you quoting scriptures , like it holds a profound meaning .
Everything in the bible was written by a man , or a woman , yet you all seem so certain it holds godly meaning .
It's the same as if Jerry Farwell , or Tammy Baker or Joel Osteen were to write a book . They would all claim they were inspired by god , but it would only be their self serving story they could promote , for profit , just like the original bible . Just a tool to control the people and get some money flowing .
Sorry if my thoughts are contrary to what you hold dear and I mean no disrespect when I say this whole thread reminded me of children getting all excited about Santa Claus .


And I'll leave you with this , as it seems so fitting -

A religion is like a penis , it's ok to have one and be proud of it .
But's it's not ok to take it out in public and wave it around .


Time and place .

Those authors you mentioned would not die for the words that they wrote. Jesus and his disciples who wrote the New Testament were tortured, and died for the words they wrote. Jesus himself knew what was coming at the end. He knew it his whole life and still went to the cross.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

Those authors you mentioned would not die for the words that they wrote. Jesus and his disciples who wrote the New Testament were tortured, and died for the words they wrote. Jesus himself knew what was coming at the end. He knew it his whole life and still went to the cross.

There is a big difference between making money and notoriety off what you say and being killed and tortured for what you say.

How many other humans have had thousands of years of words written about them, to have all those written words come true (verified by historical script the words are authentic and unchanged), say they are the son of God and God incarnate, willingly lay down their life to fulfill the message of thousands of years of writings, only to be resurrected and live again (witnessed by many) and almost all his followers be killed off yet the message and the way kick off a world wide change in the basic manner in which humans are treated, not to mention the religion that spread like hot cakes.

The social aspect of Christianity has yet to be spoken about in this thread, but the fundamental manner in which Jesus changed the way in which women and children and the forgotten of the world were dealt with before and after His life is astounding. All this, while followers were being systematically killed by the ruling powers. It is astounding anyone that has studied history can not see the influence following the life of Jesus has on people.

 

[Beagle1]

@Beagle1 would you believe a miracle if you heard of one? I have one if you want to hear about it?

Will it make you believe if you hear it?

I am open to hearing it, if you are open to me responding honestly about it. As you might expect if your miracle has a supernatural element to it I would require independent verification.

 

[Beagle1]

There is a big difference between making money and notoriety off what you say and being killed and tortured for what you say.

How many other humans have had thousands of years of words written about them, to have all those written words come true (verified by historical script the words are authentic and unchanged), say they are the son of God and God incarnate, willingly lay down their life to fulfill the message of thousands of years of writings, only to be resurrected and live again (witnessed by many) and almost all his followers be killed off yet the message and the way kick off a world wide change in the basic manner in which humans are treated, not to mention the religion that spread like hot cakes.

The social aspect of Christianity has yet to be spoken about in this thread, but the fundamental manner in which Jesus changed the way in which women and children and the forgotten of the world were dealt with before and after His life is astounding. All this, while followers were being systematically killed by the ruling powers. It is astounding anyone that has studied history can not see the influence following the life of Jesus has on people.

I don’t deny Jesus was an important historical figure and his followers were deeply committed. But these facts don’t prove Christianity’s supernatural claims are true.

There’s no doubt Christianity has had a major impact on history, but influence doesn’t equal truth. People have died for countless causes so martyrdom proves sincerity, not accuracy.

Yes Christianity introduced moral ideals that positively influenced the West, it’s also been used to justify inquisitions, the Crusades, slavery and the suppression of science.

Historical impact and strong beliefs aren’t the same as evidence for God.

 

[eddielasvegas]

Yes Christianity introduced moral ideals that positively influenced the West, it’s also been used to justify inquisitions, the Crusades, slavery and the suppression of science.

Good examples of religion's love and compassion @Beagle1 , but let's not forget these for more L&C.


LINK - perfectly healthy babies thrown in the septic tank bacause they were born to unwed mothers.

LINK - The case that exposed priests abusing 10's of thousands of kids over decades and probably centuries, and the church covering it up at every turn. But all was not lost, old Bernie received a promotion to the vatican.

LINK - For roughly 400 years if your child died before being baptized, they'll spend an eternity in "Limbo" (a/ka edge of hell). Can you imagine the angst and horror these parents felt knowing thier child would never get to heaven? Of course the church reversed itself in 2007. Oops, my bad doesn't seen to cut it.

These are all catholic church related as I lived in Boston when the 2nd link story broke so I've schooled myself on the evils of the cc. Fairly easy as it's a target rich environment (since we are a hunting forum).


Eddie

 

[dylanvb]

“For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6‬:‭12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[dylanvb]

“Why should a living man complain, A man for the punishment of his sins? Let us search out and examine our ways, And turn back to the Lord;”
‭‭Lamentations‬ ‭3‬:‭39‬-‭40‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Such a convicting scripture for myself.

 

[socoalt]

Good examples of religion's love and compassion @Beagle1 , but let's not forget these for more L&C.


LINK - perfectly healthy babies thrown in the septic tank bacause they were born to unwed mothers.

LINK - The case that exposed priests abusing 10's of thousands of kids over decades and probably centuries, and the church covering it up at every turn. But all was not lost, old Bernie received a promotion to the vatican.

LINK - For roughly 400 years if your child died before being baptized, they'll spend an eternity in "Limbo" (a/ka edge of hell). Can you imagine the angst and horror these parents felt knowing thier child would never get to heaven? Of course the church reversed itself in 2007. Oops, my bad doesn't seen to cut it.

These are all catholic church related as I lived in Boston when the 2nd link story broke so I've schooled myself on the evils of the cc. Fairly easy as it's a target rich environment (since we are a hunting forum).


Eddie

The Catholic religion is very different from the Christian beliefs that Jesus asked his followers to live by.

There is no mention of purgatory or limbo in the New Testament only heaven and hell. Christians don’t believe in purgatory.

Christianity is simply faith in god and his son Jesus Christ. The basis of which is your relationship with him, and secondly how you treat others. This is vastly different than any other organized religion that was formed later and requires a list of rules for people to live by in order to get into heaven. Remember Jesus said that the only unforgivable sin capable of banishment from his kingdom is the rejection of him and his father.

Do not mistake the terrible actions committed by humans as the will of God. The old testament is riddled with man creating terrible acts after a mistaken interpretation of God’s will. Hence the reason why Jesus the messiah came to show mankind what is actually required of us.

 

[socoalt]

I don’t deny Jesus was an important historical figure and his followers were deeply committed. But these facts don’t prove Christianity’s supernatural claims are true.

There’s no doubt Christianity has had a major impact on history, but influence doesn’t equal truth. People have died for countless causes so martyrdom proves sincerity, not accuracy.

Yes Christianity introduced moral ideals that positively influenced the West, it’s also been used to justify inquisitions, the Crusades, slavery and the suppression of science.

Historical impact and strong beliefs aren’t the same as evidence for God.

Hundreds of scholars and probably thousands of regular joes both atheist and believers have studied the New Testament trying like hell to disprove it. Especially the resurrection. It has never been done. Ever. Everyone who has tried has had to admit that the facts written in the New Testament happened. The Bible stands on its own, not one minute detail has ever been disproven. In the end more non believers have turned to faith after their attempts, the ones who remained non believers will still tell you what is written is true and cannot be disproven.