“The 22 Creedmoor Project”

[huntnful]

Barrel now has 345 rounds on it. I cleaned at 310 rounds and it took only 1 shot to start stacking a group, but took 15 shots to speed back up.

I shot the positional drill with it. It’s great for prone and seated supported. But holy hell I couldn’t hold 16lbs (bipod is on it) for the life of me in the unsupported positions. Went 9/10 supported and 2/10 unsupported . At least I can make a lot of progress from the unsupported positions lol.

Top left, seated unsupported - 0/5
Bottom left, freehand - 2/5
Top right, seated supported - 4/5
Bottom right, prone bipod, no rear support 5/5




Zero check before positional drill (left) and after (right).

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Barrel now has 345 rounds on it. I cleaned at 310 rounds and it took only 1 shot to start stacking a group, but took 15 shots to speed back up.

I shot the positional drill with it. It’s great for prone and seated supported. But holy hell I couldn’t hold 16lbs (bipod is on it) for the life of me in the unsupported positions. Went 9/10 supported and 2/10 unsupported . At least I can make a lot of progress from the unsupported positions lol.

Top left, seated unsupported - 0/5
Bottom left, freehand - 2/5
Top right, seated supported - 4/5
Bottom right, prone bipod, no rear support 5/5

View attachment 812501


Zero check before positional drill (left) and after (right).
View attachment 812503

And you were making fun of my kindergarten squares… Check out those circles

 

[IrkedCitizen]

Barrel now has 345 rounds on it. I cleaned at 310 rounds and it took only 1 shot to start stacking a group, but took 15 shots to speed back up.

I shot the positional drill with it. It’s great for prone and seated supported. But holy hell I couldn’t hold 16lbs (bipod is on it) for the life of me in the unsupported positions. Went 9/10 supported and 2/10 unsupported . At least I can make a lot of progress from the unsupported positions lol.

Top left, seated unsupported - 0/5
Bottom left, freehand - 2/5
Top right, seated supported - 4/5
Bottom right, prone bipod, no rear support 5/5

View attachment 812501


Zero check before positional drill (left) and after (right).
View attachment 812503

How much did it slow down this time?

 

[huntnful]

And you were making fun of my kindergarten squares… Check out those circles

Haha dammit! They’re on the small side, I made sure though lol.

How much did it slow down this time?

30fps after cleaning. First rounds out of the barrel were around 3265-3275fps.

I always used to just pay attention to how long it’d take to group after cleaning. It was never more than 2 shots, so I never minded having a clean barrel and shooting a couple foulers. But now after tracking the velocities, I’m not a fan of needing 15 shots to increase and stabilize speeds.

Wouldn’t cost you a hit out to a damn long ways, but I still don’t like it.

 

[Formidilosus]

I always used to just pay attention to how long it’d take to group after cleaning. It was never more than 2 shots, so I never minded having a clean barrel and shooting a couple foulers. But now after tracking the velocities, I’m not a fan of needing 15 shots to increase and stabilize speeds.

Wouldn’t cost you a hit out to a damn long ways, but I still don’t like it.

What tends to happen as well when cleaning, is that you get sporadic jumps in POI and MV. That is- everything is good, but then at some point as the throat starts to go, you get a POI shift. Then it stays for a few hundred rounds and a couple of cleanings, then a POI and/or MV shift. Etc etc.

That’s why I and those I shoot with don’t clean- stability. I don’t care if precision opens up .1 or .2 MOA (it rarely does) over a clean barrel, because from round 100 to 150 through very close to the end of the barrels life- nothing moves. Zero stays the same days to day, MV is consistent, etc. Predictability.

 

[huntnful]

What tends to happen as well when cleaning, is that you get sporadic jumps in POI and MV. That is- everything is good, but then at some point as the throat starts to go, you get a POI shift. Then it stays for a few hundred rounds and a couple of cleanings, then a POI and/or MV shift. Etc etc.

That’s why I and those I shoot with don’t clean- stability. I don’t care if precision opens up .1 or .2 MOA (it rarely does) over a clean barrel, because from round 100 to 150 through very close to the end of the barrels life- nothing moves. Zero stays the same days to day, MV is consistent, etc. Predictability.

I am slowly learning that myself by getting out of my cleaning comfort zone. It’s just something I of course had to see and test for myself.

Just going for longer shot strings and seeing if any realistic benefit at all comes from the cleaning. So far shots 20-140 after cleaning on a 22CM has no change. And shots 10-120 after cleaning on a 7-300 NMI has no change.

That was as long I’ve shot them before cleaning. I’ll keep stretching it out from here of course as well.

 

[Formidilosus]

I am slowly learning that myself by getting out of my cleaning comfort zone. It’s just something I of course had to see and test for myself.

As it should be.

Just going for longer shot strings and seeing if any realistic benefit at all comes from the cleaning. So far shots 20-140 after cleaning on a 22CM has no change. And shots 10-120 after cleaning on a 7-300 NMI has no change.

That was as long I’ve shot them before cleaning. I’ll keep stretching it out from here of course as well.

It took me a long time to stop cleaning as well.

 

[justin davis]

So if you doing load development? Say trying a different bullet out. Is it beneficial to clean between different bullets?

 

[huntnful]

As it should be.





It took me a long time to stop cleaning as well.

I’m slowly making progress as well. I was a “clean every 20-30 rounds” guy before. I’m certainly not that way now.

I’ll probably never totally eliminate cleaning, just because I like looking in barrels and understanding/learning what going on in there.

But cleaning so often, out of what I thought was necessity, is no longer a thing to me. Which is a nice change for sure.

 

[huntnful]

So if you doing load development? Say trying a different bullet out. Is it beneficial to clean between different bullets?

I have not personally tested mono bullets and lead bullets together without stripping the copper in-between. So I can’t comment to that.

I have tested ELDM’s and Berger’s during the same session without cleaning in between and had no variability in group size, as long as shooting the same powder with each bullet.

 

[Harvey_NW]

So if you doing load development? Say trying a different bullet out. Is it beneficial to clean between different bullets?

In my experience, not a measurable difference. I thought I had pictures of test groups, but I can't find them now. Long story short, this rifle has been consistently sub MOA for 10 shot samples with 140 TGK/143 ELD + H1000, IMR8133, and N565. This is the last group I shot after adjusting the load to run smooth with fireformed brass.

 

[Mhahn2]

Iv also gone to mainly carbide mandrels due to the galling issues.

Little more expensive.

Same with sizing dies, SAC with the carbide mandrel/decapper keeps things nice and smooth.

Is the moly you use a liquid? Might need to try it. Graphite didn’t do it for me. I wipe imperial on the rim right now but I’m all for something that’s less gummy.

Are you putting imperial on the rim with using the sac carbide mandrel?

 

[huntnful]

In my experience, not a measurable difference. I thought I had pictures of test groups, but I can't find them now. Long story short, this rifle has been consistently sub MOA for 10 shot samples with 140 TGK/143 ELD + H1000, IMR8133, and N565. This is the last group I shot after adjusting the load to run smooth with fireformed brass.
View attachment 812630

You notice any wandering of the first 1-2 shots when switching powders? Not much, but just slight outliers from the rest of the group?

 

[Harvey_NW]

You notice any wandering of the first 1-2 shots when switching powders? Not much, but just slight outliers from the rest of the group?

I haven't, but I've only measured and intently monitored 4 or 5 rifles. In my experience, they might show something initially, but get encompassed in a valid group. Never seen obvious outliers, with sufficient comparisons.

 

[huntnful]

I haven't, but I've only measured and intently monitored 4 or 5 rifles. In my experience, they might show something initially, but get encompassed in a valid group. Never seen obvious outliers, with sufficient comparisons.

That was what I was thinking could really be what I was seeing as well. Just not enough legit comparison or group size.

Thanks for sharing as always!

 

[Bluumoon]

Barrel now has 345 rounds on it. I cleaned at 310 rounds and it took only 1 shot to start stacking a group, but took 15 shots to speed back up.

I shot the positional drill with it. It’s great for prone and seated supported. But holy hell I couldn’t hold 16lbs (bipod is on it) for the life of me in the unsupported positions. Went 9/10 supported and 2/10 unsupported . At least I can make a lot of progress from the unsupported positions lol.

Top left, seated unsupported - 0/5
Bottom left, freehand - 2/5
Top right, seated supported - 4/5
Bottom right, prone bipod, no rear support 5/5

View attachment 812501


Zero check before positional drill (left) and after (right).
View attachment 812503

I have the PDFs for the shooter drill targets, I think they were in the equipment vs practice threads if needed

 

[Lawnboi]

Are you putting imperial on the rim with using the sac carbide mandrel?

Yea. I wax the case and just run my finger over the rim