Texas school shooting

[norcan]

The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Period. For Centuries! So why do the shooters hit schools and churches? Because it is illegal for good guys to carry there. Bad deal all the way around. Prayers to the families having to endure this insanity and the loss of their precious children.

Six armed cops stood around the whole time and did nothing to stop it.

 

[Bearwhisky]

That's what I heard.

Dead policemen are no good - they need to know there is no-one sitting on the other side of the door waiting to kill them before they enter.

Same thing happened with the FL school shooting - police were told to hang tight.

It is similar to the confined space entry stuff - a person is useless if they run into an unknown condition and die.

Imagine being a door kicker in Iraq doing exactly this trying to “save” random foreigners that hate them. These were children from the officers local community. I’m not going to monday night quarter back this event but this statement is stupid.


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[Rich M]

Everyone inside the building are unarmed children. If you don't immediately go inside, you are a useless coward. You have a gun, you are trained. Most shooters have no clue what they are doing or there would be 100 killed instead of 19.

Same stuff that folks said about the FL shooting...

 

[rodney482]

That's what I heard.

Dead policemen are no good - they need to know there is no-one sitting on the other side of the door waiting to kill them before they enter.

Same thing happened with the FL school shooting - police were told to hang tight.

It is similar to the confined space entry stuff - a person is useless if they run into an unknown condition and die.

We are trained to enter even if your alone. Which is exactly what I would do.

The goal is to engage and kill or make the threat flee the school.

Our officers do school walk throughs and are familiar with the layout, we also have master fobs that allows us access to any door and master keys that open any room.

Back in the day when I was on our entry team we routinely trained in the schools in our district.

Officer should have rifle armor and patrol rifles and at very least basic building clearing training.

SRO’s are an absolute must. This position should not be a ROD (retired on duty) detail.

 

[Rich M]

Imagine being a door kicker in Iraq doing exactly this trying to “save” random foreigners that hate them. These were children from the officers local community. I’m not going to monday night quarter back this event but this statement is stupid.


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My nephew did that overseas - at like 6'-6" he was the biggest steel plate in the bunch. Local LEO has different rules to follow than the military.

They do what they are trained to do - and not charging a building with a known shooter in it is one thing they were trained to do.

Again, this is old news to me cause of the whole FL school shooting thing a couple years back. They will try to prosecute the cops and it will come down to the training.

 

[*zap*]

6 cops stood around and heard the children being killed for almost an hour.....that is beyond sad if it is true. I wondered why a bp tac team were the one's to take the shooter out and why the majority of the kids were killed not wounded.

 

[RyanT26]

That's what I heard.

Dead policemen are no good - they need to know there is no-one sitting on the other side of the door waiting to kill them before they enter.

Same thing happened with the FL school shooting - police were told to hang tight.

It is similar to the confined space entry stuff - a person is useless if they run into an unknown condition and die.

Wrong. Sit outside and wait has not been the correct response since columbine.
Active shooter is nothing like confined space rescue

 

[rodney482]

6 cops stood around and heard the children being killed for almost an hour.....that is beyond sad if it is true. I wondered why a bp tac team were the one's to take the shooter out and why the majority of the kids were killed not wounded.

Can’t even imagine……. Hoping that isnt true

 

[BjornF16]

Sorry.

15 years.

Did the math wrong in my head. Still a decade and a half before they became part of the constitution.

I don't understand your math.

The Constitutional Convention didn't even occur until 1787 and was ratified in 1788...so more like 4 years from Constitutional Convention to ratification of the Bill of Rights.

U.S. Constitution ratified | June 21, 1788 | HISTORY

New Hampshire becomes the ninth and last necessary state to ratify the Constitution of the United States, thereby making the document the law of the land.

www.history.com

 

[*zap*]

Can’t even imagine……. Hoping that isnt true

I saw it on two different news sources.

“Let’s just rush in because the cops aren’t doing anything like they are supposed to,” said Javier Cazares. “More could have been done.” Cazares lost his fourth grade daughter, Jacklyn Cazares, in the attack. “They were unprepared,” he said.

 

[Rich M]

Wrong. Sit outside and wait has not been the correct response since columbine.
Active shooter is nothing like confined space rescue

Simply asked - why did they do it? Cops follow orders, do they not?

Again, last one in my memory is FL and I live here so got to see all the news that went along with it.

We'll watch this unfold in court.

They always said that the police guys in the school district should have kids in the school and the response would be a bit different.

 

[flatlanderhuffandpuff]

While we all talk about legal gun ownership and what firearms should be able to be used we are not focusing at all on the potential of an ideological terrorist incident. The tools are available one way or another.

I read a book a while back called Day Of Wrath which includes a terrorist take over of an elementary school. If one loner can cause so much damage imagine what a planned and coordinated attack would look like.

You would have to be simple to think the enemy is not watching the impact events like this have on us.

 

[RyanT26]

Simply asked - why did they do it? Cops follow orders, do they not?

Again, last one in my memory is FL and I live here so got to see all the news that went along with it.

We'll watch this unfold in court.

They always said that the police guys in the school district should have kids in the school and the response would be a bit different.

If your LE is still training to sit outside and wait for swat, the whole dept needs to be fired. Everbody….even the janitor! If the dept head orders this approach they need to be fired and sued. DHS has stated single officer response is ok and recommended. There is more risk. Active shooters avg someone shot ever 8-12 seconds, and have high hit to kill ratios. Waiting outside is unacceptable.

Why does it happen? Poor or no training, it won’t happen here mindset, people freeze up, talk is cheap and they get overwhelmed.
The fact is most of the time LE doesn’t get there until it’s all over. We show up in our cool guy gear but the show is over or damn near done.

 

[Jmort1754]

Every since columbine the paradigm for active shooters had evolved.

Even single officers are trained to enter the building. As Rodney stated above.


The coward of broward comes to mind.

How could these cops sit outside and listen to this for even a few minutes.

This kid made threats against elementary schools, was being chased by police and was witnessed entering a school with a weapon. Yet they sat outside and listened.

I fully support the police but I'm not sure I can support this.

 

[Jmort1754]

If your LE is still training to sit outside and wait for swat, the whole dept needs to be fired. Everbody….even the janitor! If the dept head orders this approach they need to be fired and sued. DHS has stated single officer response is ok and recommended. There is more risk. Active avg someone shot ever 8-12 seconds, and have high hit to kill ratios. Waiting outside is unacceptable.

Why does it happen? Poor or no training, it won’t happen here mindset, people freeze up, talk is cheap and they get overwhelmed.
The fact is most of the time LE doesn’t get there until it’s all over. We show up in our cool guy gear but the show is over or damn near done.

They had a chance, they were on ******* a scene as this was happening. As you said if they were ordered to stay outside the police department should be disbanded.

 

[RyanT26]

They had a chance, they were on ******* a scene as this was happening. As you said if they were ordered to stay outside the police department should be disbanded.

I’m not sure where the 40 minute timeline is coming from. The one I had seen earlier in the event showed, from the time of the crash to the suspect being killed was pretty short.

 

[rodney482]

Every since columbine the paradigm for active shooters had evolved.

Even single officers are trained to enter the building. As Rodney stated above.


The coward of broward comes to mind.

How could these cops sit outside and listen to this for even a few minutes.

This kid made threats against elementary schools, was being chased by police and was witnessed entering a school with a weapon. Yet they sat outside and listened.

I fully support the police but I'm not sure I can support this.

I’m not sure where the 40 minute timeline is coming from. The one I had seen earlier in the event showed, from the time of the crash to the suspect being killed was pretty short.

Onlookers urged police to charge into Texas school

A father whose fourth-grade daughter was killed in the attack, said he raced to the school and raised the idea of charging into the school with several other bystanders.

www.npr.org

 

[Jmort1754]

I’m not sure where the 40 minute timeline is coming from. The one I had seen earlier in the event showed, from the time of the crash to the suspect being killed was pretty short.

The one I'm seeing is police were on scene anywhere between 14-40 minutes. Nothing set in stone. I do know that bystanders reported a long delay outside.

 

[*zap*]

Fox has the first report at 11:38 and shooter in custody at 1:06.

 

[RyanT26]

Onlookers urged police to charge into Texas school

A father whose fourth-grade daughter was killed in the attack, said he raced to the school and raised the idea of charging into the school with several other bystanders.

www.npr.org

I had not seen that.
If true and accurate see my above to mentioned post. Granted they could’ve lost some time due to the barricaded door once they had him contained in the room. Hopefully soon an accurate and detailed timeline will be released, this one doesn’t sound good.