Talk Me Out Of Micro Diameter Arrows

[CodeMonkey]

After lots of hemming and hawing, I think I'm going with the Black Eagle FOCOS system for my arrows this year. It meets pretty much all of the requirements I'm looking for. Honestly, it's kinda a genius idea... aluminum outserts are known to bend, so just glue in a post and the outsert portion becomes replaceable.

I was originally going to go with the FOCOS system on Rampage (.204) shafts, but I then had the realization that one of my hang ups for going to a skinny arrow was the component system (especially one that accepts standard threaded broadheads). I then realized that the same system is offered for the X Impact shafts, so here I am, strongly considering moving to a skinny arrow.

For those of you with hands on experience with .166 arrows, am I missing anything? Anything I should be on the look out for before making the jump?

 

[Zac]

Well with the new system from Ironwill and Valkyrie of course you would be fine. I would not use anything that extends the threads outside the shaft. Those shafts are already very fragile. You don't need a large lever arm to help you shear the front of on angled impacts. It also takes a skinny longer to recover in flight. Dorge talks about this. The guy from Bowonly found that a heavier Easton Axis was dropping less at range than the X Impacts as well.

 

[Blockcaver]

Easton Carbon Injexion 330s are not fragile at all. Very tough based on 7 seasons of use and alot of mountain hunting. Put in the D-6 insert for reinforcing and a Firenock outsert over it to shoot regular threaded broadheads and they have held up great for me. Not made any more, and I haven't shot any of the new Axis 4mm. I have enough Injexions to last me a while. Good luck with your BE system.

 

[TX_Diver]

Regardless of shaft/ID I'd use some sort of HITs. Iron Will just came out with a new one that looks promising.

I switched from the black eagle half outs to Brass HITs and only lost a few shafts over the course of a year of shooting to wobble vs 50% or more when I was using the half outs.

 

[JDZ]

After years of shooting .204s, I went to X-Impact arrows with the FOCOS system last year. I mostly like them. The FOCOS system seems to spin nice and be fairly durable. My least favorite part is that lighted G nocks are not durable. They bend or break easy, to the point I am not confident hunting with them. Riding around in your quiver in the backcountry you wouldn't know if you snagged one on a branch or on the dirt enough to bend one, and it wouldn't fly right. The solution is don't use lighted nocks. I am considering building some heavier arrows, and I'm pretty sure I'll build Deep Impact and probably go with the Iron Will Snyder Core heads. See the thread I created about a year ago before I built mine:

Micro Diameter Insert, Outsert, Ballistic Collar Systems .165 .166

Building new hunting arrows and thinking of making the jump from .204 to .166 or .165. Looking to put 175 to 200 gr up front, including a 100-gr broadhead. I want to stay with standard thread broadheads. Trying to compare the following systems as well as any others you'd suggest. Gold Tip...

www.rokslide.com

 

[TCUHunter34]

Victory VAP with Valkyrie system or DaySix Collar. Those two options with the VAP are an insanely good arrow. The DaySix collar allows you to use any broadhead you want as well

 

[Samdemarais]

I always think about my application. Sure a skinny is probably going to be the best for penetration and wind. But if the wind is ripping can you really even hold steady enough to take a long shot? So if you were hunting from a tree stand and shooting less then 40, I would probably just use a .204. If you are hunting out west and want to take long shots in windy situations, probably best to spend the money on skinny’s and the best possible components. But, If you put an iron will on a skinny or a standard shaft and they both fly perfect does one stick deeper into the dirt on the other side of the animal ?

 

[bsnedeker]

I've been using the day 6 system for three years now. It's very durable... never broken or damaged an arrow.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[dkime]

After lots of hemming and hawing, I think I'm going with the Black Eagle FOCOS system for my arrows this year. It meets pretty much all of the requirements I'm looking for. Honestly, it's kinda a genius idea... aluminum outserts are known to bend, so just glue in a post and the outsert portion becomes replaceable.

I was originally going to go with the FOCOS system on Rampage (.204) shafts, but I then had the realization that one of my hang ups for going to a skinny arrow was the component system (especially one that accepts standard threaded broadheads). I then realized that the same system is offered for the X Impact shafts, so here I am, strongly considering moving to a skinny arrow.

For those of you with hands on experience with .166 arrows, am I missing anything? Anything I should be on the look out for before making the jump?

The ID of the shaft is the only tightly controlled tolerance, if your collar doesn't tie into the ID of the shaft then you're going to struggle to get them to spin true, my experience with systems like the FOCOS made me build a jig the would allow me to dial my collars in to the ID rather than the OD. It's all about how particular you wanna be. I shot 6 inserts of this style a few years ago and quickly moved on. I shoot too many different styles of broadheads to tie myself into a system that doesnt support the standard 8-32.

 

[robby denning]

I can't talk you out of them.

and four years later I still believe the same thing.

The outsert thing can be a little bit of a pain and I have had a few fails, but not many. Pretty happy with the micros.

 

[JLane330]

I used the X impact a few years ago and have moved back to more traditional arrows. I had an issue with a buzz in flight, could hear it all the way there. Ended up being the nocks. Changed those and it went away. The nocks were weak too, I broke quite a few when shooting at my bag target. I also didn't like how they held in my Tightspot quiver. Otherwise, they were fine, but honestly, didn't do much that regular GT Hunter XT's can't do. Of course they cost WAY more, so I guess my load was lighter.

For reference, I was practicing between 40 and 125 yds and compared them side by side. Different POI (slightly), but both shot similar groups for me.

 

[three5x5s]

Well with the new system from Ironwill and Valkyrie of course you would be fine. I would not use anything that extends the threads outside the shaft. Those shafts are already very fragile. You don't need a large lever arm to help you shear the front of on angled impacts. It also takes a skinny longer to recover in flight. Dorge talks about this. The guy from Bowonly found that a heavier Easton Axis was dropping less at range than the X Impacts as well.

Can you give us a link to the Bowonly test?

 

[Zac]

Can you give us a link to the Bowonly test?

Bow Only Outdoors™ on Instagram: "Did a little arrow testing after work today. I’ve ran the axis 340s at 27” with a 50 grain brass insert and 100 grain point for the last 3 years with great results, but wanted to experiment with a little more weight

Bow Only Outdoors™ shared a post on Instagram: "Did a little arrow testing after work today. I’ve ran the axis 340s at 27” with a 50 grain brass insert and 100 grain point for the last 3 years with great results, but wanted to experiment with a little more weight up front. With my specs at 72...

www.instagram.com

It was an Insta story but here's the post. He was puzzled by it. I would have been too, however Dorge talked to me about this recovery issue before.

 

[three5x5s]

Just wondering if he was shooting them all at the same time without making any adjustments to his rest. If his .204s were level in if rest the .166 would be pointing down a smidge. Its over my head how a heavy fatter arrow drops less than a skinny lighter one.

 

[Ghetto]

I like the micros.

Ive shot Goldtip, DaySix, and Vap TKO, and prefer the VAPs.

 

[Zac]

Just wondering if he was shooting them all at the same time without making any adjustments to his rest. If his .204s were level in if rest the .166 would be pointing down a smidge. Its over my head how a heavy fatter arrow drops less than a skinny lighter one.

Could be. You can ask him, he's a pretty cool dude. Dorge said the skinnies burn energy because they do not recover nearly as fast as a regular diameter. He said radars at 40 were recording higher speeds with regular diameter vs skinnies of same weight. You can also call that dude, he'll talk your ear off.

 

[Billy Goat]

I can't talk you out of them.

and four years later I still believe the same thing.

The outsert thing can be a little bit of a pain and I have had a few fails, but not many. Pretty happy with the micros.

Gotta get out of 2016 Robby. Those are just small diameter, not micros.

@@

Micros have a .166 I'd and require different components.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I haven’t seen a reason to use small diameter arrows.

 

[JDZ]

Just wondering if he was shooting them all at the same time without making any adjustments to his rest. If his .204s were level in if rest the .166 would be pointing down a smidge. Its over my head how a heavy fatter arrow drops less than a skinny lighter one.

Same reason a heavy, long, high BC bullet drops less at very long distances than a light, fast bullet. The light bullet doesn't hold speed and slows down and drops. The heavy bullet retains its speed, even though it's slower at the muzzle.

 

[JDZ]

Could be. You can ask him, he's a pretty cool dude. Dorge said the skinnies burn energy because they do not recover nearly as fast as a regular diameter. He said radars at 40 were recording higher speeds with regular diameter vs skinnies of same weight. You can also call that dude, he'll talk your ear off.

Why wouldn't they recover as fast as larger diameter arrows? A .300 spine arrow is .300 spine, regardless of diameter. Given the same fletching size, weight, and FOC, if the larger profile of the larger diameter arrow causes it to recover faster, then the larger diameter arrow would be burning more energy to recover. I'm interested to know more about this.