Talk Me Out of a Knight Mountaineer

[CodeMonkey]

I am looking to purchase my first muzzleloader. I want/need something general purpose for all species here in CO , so .50 caliber it is (although there could be a .45 in my future for deer/antelope).

I know the Ultra-Lite is very popular, but I'm leaning towards the heavier option and the Mountaineer. My thinking is that 8.5 lbs. really isn't that heavy (compared to say a scoped centerfire rifle) and 6 lbs. is probably going to kick like a mule. Plan is to shoot 300 grain Thor bullets on top of a near max charge (we will see what groups well) of BH209.

I'll also mention that the reason behind my interest in muzzleloader for this season is the fact that I am coming back from shoulder surgery this past September (with another one recommended by the second ortho doc that I am putting off) so archery is out and recoil could be a concern here.

Am I crazy? I'm just weighing (pun intended) the risk of potentially developing a flinch vs. carrying 2.5 lbs. all over the mountain.

 

[ElDiablito]

Personally, I like a lighter rifle for backcountry hunting. I have a TC Omega X7 set up for Colorado that weighs 6 lb 2 oz. It’s a little punchy with 300 gr bullets and big charges of Bh209, but not terrible. If you’re hunting deer sized game, Id use the 250 Thors. Makes a big difference over the 300s in felt recoil.

 

[wowzers]

My opinion is the 2.5lbs of weight could be easily negated elsewhere. I wouldn’t let it deter me.

 

[lazydrifter]

I shoot a 50 cal Knight disc extreme and never felt the need to go to an ultra lite. They shoot awesome. I've been shooting Barnes 290 grain TEZ over a stout load of BH209 but just picked up some no excuses 420 grain full bore that I'm going to give a try and see how they do.

 

[ctcranor]

I’m new to all of this too. Bought a CVA Optima V2, shooting 80g (by volume) of Swiss behind 300 Thors. The recoil isn’t like a centerfire which is far more abrupt, this is more like a shove. Maybe the recoil feel is all in my head but the round is considerably slower in fps so that makes sense. I too had shoulder surgery in January, just started shooting again with no pain (black powder and .22, no centerfire). My shoulder fatigues fairly quickly but having no issues with recoil.

 

[MallardSX2]

I had a knight ultralight muzzleloader and it was really nice. I had a lot of problems with it at first but eventually I got all of the bugs worked out of it. I just didnt like how you needed a tool to break the gun down and I dint like how hard it recoiled. I traded the gun for a Dillon press and bought me a CVA MR.


For what its worth, I like the CVA much better.

 

[lazydrifter]

If you set your knight up right cleanup is a breeze. I shoot bare primer and I run a heat resistant O ring behind my primer and it eliminates any blowback behind the breech plug.

 

[ElDiablito]

The recoil isn’t like a centerfire which is far more abrupt, this is more like a shove.

That’s what real black powder feels like to me. Much different recoil signature in any rifle than the other powders.

 

[CodeMonkey]

Update: after doing more tag research and application planning, it looks like the tags that I will more than likely draw are legal to hunt with a .45.

As a result, I'm wondering the following:
1. What is the recoil difference going down to a .45 (vs. a .50)? Would the Ultra-Lite still be a recoil monster in the smaller caliber?
2. I'm hunting in CO (no sabots) so I'm wondering if anyone has bullet recommendations. I highly prefer a lead free option to prevent that argument with the wife.

 

[ElDiablito]

Update: after doing more tag research and application planning, it looks like the tags that I will more than likely draw are legal to hunt with a .45.

As a result, I'm wondering the following:
1. What is the recoil difference going down to a .45 (vs. a .50)? Would the Ultra-Lite still be a recoil monster in the smaller caliber?
2. I'm hunting in CO (no sabots) so I'm wondering if anyone has bullet recommendations. I highly prefer a lead free option to prevent that argument with the wife.

There’s no recoil difference between a .50 and .45 (all else being equal). Felt recoil is mostly bullet weight, powder charge and rifle weight.

There aren’t currently any .45 non-lead full-bore conical options. Although Thor is supposed to be bringing a .45 out this year. Most guys are shooting .45 lead conicals like No Excuses bullets (available in 385-495 gr) or Powerbelts where full-bore is required.

 

[CodeMonkey]

Mountaineer–Shadow Gray

The Mountaineer Shadow Gray Muzzleloader provides stopping power, pinpoint accuracy, safety while hunting and looks great over the mantle

www.muzzleloaders.com

Looks like Knight talked me out of it with that price increase. $1657.99 for a Full Plastic Jacket .50 cal

Edited to add: Oh, I forgot, they then add on the 11% FAET in your cart, so it's $1840.37 shipped.

 

[Jellymon1]

Looks like the .45 version is still about $1k.

 

[CodeMonkey]

There are alot of configurations that are still reasonably priced. If you look at the rifle I posted, but change the color of the stock, you save several hundred dollars.

FYI, there's an official statement from Knight on their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/knightrifles

I honestly call BS. No way their cost of goods sold went up 60% over the last few years. I can get two Woodman Patriots for the price of a similarly configured Mountaineer now.

 

[CodeMonkey]

I might be able to snag a reasonably priced Mountaineer during the "Going Out of Business (Again)" Sale that's invariably coming in the next year or so.

 

[ElDiablito]

There are alot of configurations that are still reasonably priced. If you look at the rifle I posted, but change the color of the stock, you save several hundred dollars.

FYI, there's an official statement from Knight on their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/knightrifles

I honestly call BS. No way their cost of goods sold went up 60% over the last few years. I can get two Woodman Patriots for the price of a similarly configured Mountaineer now.

And with a Patriot you could shoot light smokeless loads if you wanted to. Much more versatile option.

 

[TCcowboy]

I just checked Knights webpage. You can get a 52 caliber disc extreme thumbhole stock for 395.00. This is an awesome deal. I have one I purchased 7 months ago for same price. I got a mountaineer thumbhole laminate stock in 52 cal 2 years ago on clearance for 550.00
I shoot black powder a lot. The 52 is the best cal I have ever shot. Bullets are still available through Knight, Natchez, Midsouth shooters supply. What is really great is you can shoot any .458 cal (45-70) bullet with grey sabot and any .475 bullet with magenta sabot. And don’t be scared away thinking if Knight goes under the sabots will be unavailable. They are made by MMP, and only available through knight right now but agreement says that MMP will continue to sale if knight goes out of business. In my Mountaineer I shoot a custom 330 grain .458 high bc spire point in grey sabot made by Northern Precision and in Disc extreme set up for western hunting with a 420 grain conical from Pacific Northwest muzzleloading. Both are moa accurate.
Knights are well built quality guns, but I admit they are out of touch with their prices now, with that being said a 52 cal gun for 395.00 with Williams fiber optic sights, Easton aluminum rod and a timney trigger is a slam dunk no brainer. I guarantee you will be happy with it and be able to pass it along someday. TC

 

[CodeMonkey]

I just checked Knights webpage. You can get a 52 caliber disc extreme thumbhole stock for 395.00. This is an awesome deal. I have one I purchased 7 months ago for same price. I got a mountaineer thumbhole laminate stock in 52 cal 2 years ago on clearance for 550.00
I shoot black powder a lot. The 52 is the best cal I have ever shot. Bullets are still available through Knight, Natchez, Midsouth shooters supply. What is really great is you can shoot any .458 cal (45-70) bullet with grey sabot and any .475 bullet with magenta sabot. And don’t be scared away thinking if Knight goes under the sabots will be unavailable. They are made by MMP, and only available through knight right now but agreement says that MMP will continue to sale if knight goes out of business. In my Mountaineer I shoot a custom 330 grain .458 high bc spire point in grey sabot made by Northern Precision and in Disc extreme set up for western hunting with a 420 grain conical from Pacific Northwest muzzleloading. Both are moa accurate.
Knights are well built quality guns, but I admit they are out of touch with their prices now, with that being said a 52 cal gun for 395.00 with Williams fiber optic sights, Easton aluminum rod and a timney trigger is a slam dunk no brainer. I guarantee you will be happy with it and be able to pass it along someday. TC

I'm in CO, no sabots.

 

[TCcowboy]

I'm in CO, no sabots.

I see that. I posted that in my Disc Extreme I shoot 420 grain conical no sabot for western (Colorado) hunting. I use my mountaineer with sabot here in Tx. Sorry for not clarifying that.

 

[CodeMonkey]

Does anyone know if the Disc Extreme's stock fits on a Mountaineer? For the price of a straight stock Mountaineer I could get a thumbhole Mountaineer and a Disc Extreme.

 

[CodeMonkey]

Alternatively, I could order a .45 caliber Mountaineer and the .50 caliber barrel kit for less than a .50 caliber gun.

I don't have an MBA, but something feels off about that.