Taking Equity out of Home to Go on Guided Hunts

[go_deep]

@HornPorn how old are you?

 

[pirogue]

Wow, 6 pages of responses. Hopefully, the OP makes what he feels is right and can sleep at night. And in a few years, looking back, sleeps even better at night.

 

[alaska_bou]

I'm curious, would the OP consider taking a mortgage against his house for an unsuccessful hunt? In other words, if you wouldn't go into debt "only for the experience" I wouldn't go into debt for any hunt.

I really don't understand what the obsession is for all four NA sheep, especially when considering how many hunts there are around the world that offer far better adventures for a fraction of the cost, IMO. Slams are man-made hunting achievements. Nothing necessarily wrong with that, but I like to see people seek their own hunting goals, not goals set by others.

 

[Cspraggins]

Schmalzy,

I made an assumption he was younger when he discussed the timeline of now versus later. If you are in mile 20, you dont preface the question the way he did IMO.

 

[schmalzy]

Schmalzy,

I made an assumption he was younger when he discussed the timeline of now versus later. If you are in mile 20, you dont preface the question the way he did IMO.

Totally get it; the joys of discussing highly circumstantial financial decisions in pursuit of sheep.

Hope my comment didn’t come across combative, wasn’t my intent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cspraggins]

Totally get it; the joys of discussing highly circumstantial financial decisions in pursuit of sheep.

Hope my comment didn’t come across combative, wasn’t my intent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not at all; no offense taken. These convo's are all good fun and its eye opening to get everyone's insight, especially knowing everyone is at different stages of life!

 

[TaperPin]

Nothing personal, but who prepays for something years in advance to what is essentially a small business? People die, get divorced, a good business is taken over by a son who’s a goof, they loose their license, get arrested, go blind, get MS or ALS, hit their head, get long Covid, turn into drunks, runs off with a girl half his age, get Hep C from the girl he ran off with, gets stabbed by the wife for running off, get shot in the rear with a target arrow when wife catches him in he act, wins the lotto and retires, inherits a bunch of money and retires, gets Cancer, a horse steps on his foot and a bone infection gets ugly, and about 1000 other reasons to not trust any business will still be around next year or tomorrow.

I‘ve seen the most reliable guy I’ve ever known totally go to hell when he got divorced - had you given him a few grand it would be long gone and you can’t sue someone who doesn’t have a pot to piss in. No way is what you are talking about a good plan. It makes me worry poor judgement on this little item might suggest other parts of the plan are also questionable.

 

[HornPorn]

I really don't understand what the obsession is for all four NA sheep, especially when considering how many hunts there are around the world that offer far better adventures for a fraction of the cost, IMO. Slams are man-made hunting achievements. Nothing necessarily wrong with that, but I like to see people seek their own hunting goals, not goals set by others.

If you read my original post, I said, verbatim: "all 4 of the north american sheep hunts, as well as a few other mountain hunts while I am still physically able". One of those is blue sheep in Nepal. Is that not my goal either because you or someone else already did it? Cmon man. Lots have people have already done what you have as well...that's a cheap shot you took, but I'm glad you got a few likes from it. My goals are absolutely my own, but I felt it worth mentioning the NAWS because those are the ones on the fastest cost trajectory

 

[alaska_bou]

I apologize if you took my reply the wrong way. I was trying to make two points for consideration before you mortgage your house for something like this. And you did ask for opinions, right?

 

[atmat]

If you read my original post, I said, verbatim: "all 4 of the north american sheep hunts, as well as a few other mountain hunts while I am still physically able". One of those is blue sheep in Nepal. Is that not my goal either because you or someone else already did it? Cmon man. Lots have people have already done what you have as well...that's a cheap shot you took, but I'm glad you got a few likes from it. My goals are absolutely my own, but I felt it worth mentioning the NAWS because those are the ones on the fastest cost trajectory

If you ask for advice on the internet, you need thick skin.

 

[180ls1]

What is your:
Age
Income
Assets

Oh, and save up the cash and go on one first before you commit to all of them.

 

[6.5x284]

What is your:
Age
Income
Assets

Oh, and save up the cash and go on one first before you commit to all of them.

This. What if you go on the first one and after 12 of your 15 days cold and wet realize you'd rather chase screaming bulls in September in trendy camo and a t shirt? I would put the money down on a dall, save hard in an index fund, and after that trip decide if you still want it that badly.

But...if you do it, we want pics lol!

 

[180ls1]

This. What if you go on the first one and after 12 of your 15 days cold and wet realize you'd rather chase screaming bulls in September in trendy camo and a t shirt? I would put the money down on a dall, save hard in an index fund, and after that trip decide if you still want it that badly.

But...if you do it, we want pics lol!

Yup, that $$$ could spit off $10k/yr forever in a hunting fund affording you some sweet hunting opportunities. I know my taste has changed over the years so that flexibility would be nice.

 

[bigbassin]

If I’m understanding correctly, if you can pay off a 300k mortgage in 10 years you are saying you have 30k a year that you could be saving if it isn’t tied to debt.

If you put 30k into just a basic savings account currently getting 4% interest for 4 years, you’d have 132k in 2028. Dall sheep after inflation is let’s say 35k that year, you put the 30k you’d put towards debt towards that hunt plus 5k from the savings.

You’ve now gone after Dall and still have 132k in the bank after interest for the year.

Say a Rocky Mountain and Desert are going for 70k, pick one for the year to put your 30k towards it and pull 40k from your 132 you’re sitting at 95k after interest.

Do the other the same way and you still have 58k after interest.

Gives you basically 90k to go after a stone.

It would only come out to 240k doing it this way, resulting in a savings of about 150k just by waiting 4 years. Never go into debt, never hold any risk and have a shot at all 4 in the next 8 years.

Or you could take that exact same strategy for just the first 4 years, than get to pick 2 of each of the following per year and go on all these hunts for just 120k:

- A whole African Safari with 5-6 animals
- Red Stag
- Moose
- Elk
- Mountain Goat
- Mule Deer
- Whitetail Deer
- Blacktail Deer
- Axis Deer
- Oryx
- Auodad
- Ibex
- Antelope
- Carabou
- Grizzly Bear
- Black Bear
- All 4 species of Turkey

And if you went from cheapest to most expensive the interest would even leave you with enough leftover to start saving which is what I would recommend you do before a hunt anyways.

 

[MntHunter]

Brother, get a HELOC. Interest Rate is like 7%, you only need to take the money out when you need it. Most good sheep outfitters are booked till 2026 anyway. Thinking Dall Sheep, 40k for an outfitter, put 10k down this year, 10k next and settle in 2026. You are looking at 700 to 1500 a year in interest, which is less than the cost of hunts going up. Pay 600 a month, like it is a car payment, you will never be too far in debt.

Let's reframe this, you have 100k mortgage on a 1.5M dollar home, everyone would say wow what a financially wise and responsible man you are. But say that 100k is for sheep hunting everyone goes wow, terrible financial decision.

My grandfather is in a nursing home now, talking about things he wish he did, or what he could have done, etc. I have some debt but I have done 2 sheep hunts. Watched co workers die of cancer and heart attacks (in their 30s and 40s). You have your own personal goals, you have made awesome financials decisions to put you in this place, enjoy it! Don't look back, the rocking chair will be here before you know it.

Also, hunt a Fannin instead of a Stone.

 

[Marbles]

My thought is that sounds dumb. You are talking a $1,800 month payment (30 year loan if you can get 6% rate). That is $21,600 per year you can save, earning 4% in a high yield checking account puts that making an additional $860 a year. In 18 months you can pay for an Alaskan sheep hunt in full, in 3-4 months you can put down your deposit.

If we are talking a 10 year mortgage at the same rate, that is $3,330 per month, or $39,960 per year. You are bull shitting yourself if you think you cannot pay for sheep hunting using your current cash flow. Plus, you will have financing costs to the mortgage, so several thousand extra right there, before considering the $100,000 you will pay in interest over the life of a 10 year 300K mortgage.

Or, you can add thousands to the cost by paying the bank interest.

Make payments to yourself and keep your freedom.

 

[180ls1]

My thought is that sounds dumb. You are talking a $1800 month payment (30 year loan if you can get 6% rate). That is $21,600 per year you can save, earning 4% in a high yield checking account puts that making an additional $860 a year. In 18 months you can pay for an Alaskan sheep hunt in full, in 3-4 months you can put down your deposit.

Or, you can add thousands to the cost by paying the bank interest.

Make payments to yourself and keep your freedom.

Yup, and likely even more than that. People pay significantly more for things when they finance/use debt compared to cash.

 

[Marbles]

Yup, and likely even more than that. People pay significantly more for things when they finance/use debt compared to cash.

Yep. $100,000 in interest on a 10 year loan at 6%. Hoping to refinance at a lower rate is for fools. You caught me before I added the below edit.

If we are talking a 10 year mortgage at the same rate, that is $3,330 per month, or $39,960 per year. You are bull shitting yourself if you think you cannot pay for sheep hunting using your current cash flow. Plus, you will have financing costs to the mortgage, so several thousand extra right there, before considering the $100,000 you will pay in interest over the life of a 10 year 300K mortgage.

 

[RdRdrFan]

I didn’t see age and what’s the stability of your job and have a family? If you’re younger and If it’s just you fuc**** send it. If the job is stable and you know you have the income go kill it. If it’s really worth $1.5 and it’s paid for if it all hits the fan you sell and cover the debt and downsize.

just fyi. I work for the railroad with a phenomenal pension and retirement plan. Three co workers in the last couple of years have been diagnosed with cancer and one is gone with two not having much time left. Worked for 30 years for this fantastic pension and will never draw a check.

This right here.

If your job is stable (I mean rock solid) and you can afford it then do it. If you are married and/or have kids then factor in the cost of an extra life insurance policy to cover the debt that you are taking on.

People act like all debt is bad. It’s not.

Im not saying that this is a brilliant idea. But it isn’t the worst. I can 10000% guaranty that the vast majority of the folks ridiculing the OP on this thread have a mortgage or rent. Unless you are COMPLETELY debt free or you peruse Rokslide for fun and don’t spend any money hunting then you are a hypocrite for throwing rocks at the OP. Because you are basically doing the exact same thing (just in a different order).

The OP is 1000% correct that sheep prices will continue to increase. No doubt about that. All of these folks talking about how much he could earn in savings accounts and CD’s seem to forget where CD and Savings rates were just a couple of years ago. And if your idea of investment is CD’s and Savings accounts then you absolutely are to be ignored when it comes to providing financial advice.

OP is basically hedging against the known which is increasing cost of sheep hunting in North America.

If he can afford it and have it paid off in 10 years then he should go for it if getting a slam is his goal.

Not all debt is bad. If OP is hell bent on getting his Sheep Slam then this isn’t necessarily a horrible way to approach it.

 

[HornPorn]

Yep. $100,000 in interest on a 10 year loan at 6%. Hoping to refinance at a lower rate is for fools. You caught me before I added the below edit.

If we are talking a 10 year mortgage at the same rate, that is $3,330 per month, or $39,960 per year. You are bull shitting yourself if you think you cannot pay for sheep hunting using your current cash flow. Plus, you will have financing costs to the mortgage, so several thousand extra right there, before considering the $100,000 you will pay in interest over the life of a 10 year 300K mortgage.

I think what you and many are missing is, the whole point of doing this is to lock in today's rates on all hunts.... not only the 4 north american wild sheep which I already pointed out have collectively increased by $90,000 in only 3 years, but also the other hunts which include asian mountain hunts also appreciating though not as drastically. I will book all of these hunts now, and go on the hunts over the next 2-3 years.

Another thing, many posters are assuming that I will pay the loan down in even increments across a 10 year period. I never said that. I might throw 100K at it the first year, then make regular payments, then throw another $100K at it in year 5, etc. These are just examples, but just because I say it might take 10-11 years....that's a max, and it doesn't mean Im making minimum payments during that time. I have a banker who is going to write it up with no pre-payment penalty, and the interest will go down as the principal goes down.

Now, if you are still with me, go back to why I'm doing this in the first place:

Total cost of all hunts if booked/contract put in place in 2024 + whatever interest I might pay until loan is paid off

vs.

Total cost of all hunts if booked and done methodically over the next decade, one by one.