Swaro & Kowa Vs. Vortex Question

[marktole]

Hey guys, so I've got a pair of 10x50 Razor HD binos and I love them, so when I went to buy a spotter I picked up a Razor HD 20-60x80 from Vortex as well. Its also a pretty good scope, especially at the price point. However, I'm a little disappointed at the clarity of the scope above about 45-50 power and at ranges further than around 800-1,000 yards. Its easy enough to tell what's there, but making out many details is kind of hard. You could easily tell if you were looking at a mule deer at a mile or so, but I wouldn't ever be able to tell much about his rack. I've played with the focus and diopter adjustments with plenty of daylight and can't get it to clear up.

So my question is, why is the scope doing that? I've found a few reviews here and there of guys complaining of the same thing. And secondly, will a high end spotting scope like a Swaro, Kowa, Lieca, etc. have a problem like that? What is different in manufacturing processes or glass quality that makes them not have that problem?

 

[PathFinder]

No matter what the fanboys say, Vortex doesn't compete in the elite optics game. They make a great product for the price, but they just aren't batting with the big boys. I had a Razor HD and had the exact same experience you describe having. On to the good stuff... Matt Cashell just did a real review of the ATX vs the Kowa 883. Not some lame "I like this one best" review, but a real, in depth, scientific review. He throws in a couple other scopes, including the Razor HD, at the end. Check it out here http://www.rokslide.com/2012-01-09-05-09-42/optics/261-swarovski-atx85-kowa-884. From what I've seen and read, Kowa outresolves them all. That said, any of the elite scopes will do you well and eat the Razor HD alive. As far as the differences, it starts with fluoride crystal glass. It's denser, and allows light to pass through it with far less distortion and aberration. Beyond that, it comes down to superior manufacturing and QC. The elite companies know that they are selling products with performance only, and they have to deliver a truly top of the line optic.

 

[dotman]

I found my Razor and buddies pretty much equal to the $600 Vanguard Endevor HD, no they are not in the same class as the optics you listed but there is a decent price diff. I would add the Meopta S2 and Cabelas Instinct to your list as well but hard to beat the Swaro ATX or Kowa 883.

The Vortex is a good all around mid grade optic but other options that are cheaper have or are catching up to it.

 

[tipsntails7]

Matt would be better to explain stuff like this but there is ALOT of things that can make the view less clear, especially at the higher end of the magnification. Weather conditions and sample variances are two big ones that should be considered.
Comparing vortex to zeiss, Leica, swaro and Kowa is not fair, they are not on the same realm of price so you shouldn't expect the same performance. Quality control, coatings and the type and quality of glass all adds to the resolution of the scope but also the price. I've been searching for my next scope and have been doing a TON of reading on bird forums. Those guys take their optics very serious.

There are good deals in the optics world, but it is a realm of products where you do get what you pay for. Now is it worth the large cost increase, only you can decide that.

 

[jmden]

That Kowa 883/884 is the only scope on the market still, I believe, that uses pure fluorite glass for the objective lens. It's the only Kowa that does as well. There's one for sale here.

 

[Clarktar]

One of you needs to buy my Kowa 883!!

 

[marktole]

Thanks for all the info guys, that makes me understand it a little better. I wasn't necessarily comparing Vortex to Lieca, Ziess, Swaro, etc., just wondering if those scopes would have similar issues at magnification and distance and if paying double what the Razor cost would be worth it. I was really surprised by the spotter doing that because I have zero issues with the binos. The Vortex spotter is still a really solid optic from 20-40 IMO, I may just consider buying a WA eye piece and upgrading in the future if the need presents itself.

 

[Rizzy]

My Razor was grainy at high magnification too. All the mid grade glass I have looked through suffers at high magnification, not just the Vortex.

 

[flyinsquirel]

It's not just clarity where the top brands beat the mid range glass. A Swaro 80ATS HD will get you around 5-8 mins more viewing time after sundown than the Razor 80 in my experience. There are those that say even the 80HD quality drops off above 50x. As Rizzy says above, high magnification levels is where you separate top glass from the rest.

 

[brewer427]

I'll through another one you might want to look at and that's a meopta s2. I stepped up from a 85 razor to a Swaro 80ats with the wide angle lense for a couple months, but got a chance to compare them side by side and sold the ATS and bought the meopta with the 30-60 WA lense and have not looked back. Just my 2cents

 

[Shrek]

The Razor binoculars aren't all that great either when compared to Alpha glass in tougher conditions. Looking around the parking lot at a big box store won't really show the difference. I just received my new EL's and was looking around the neighborhood with them and the way they make details pop out is amazing.
The steal of a deal in spotters is the Meopta S2 82. I had one for a while and would still own it if it had been an angled model. My ATS 80 HD is a really really nice scope and weighs a half pound less than the Meopta but I think the glass was better in the Meopta by a little bit. An ATX 85 is just stunning ! The field flattening lens and wide fov make it a pleasure to use and I'll have one eventually. My ATS 80 HD will resolve mule deer antlers at a mile in any reasonable conditions. Like european boots and Kifaru backpacks I don't regret a penny I've paid for the Swarovski optics I've bought.

 

[elkguide]

One other aspect to consider is how "YOUR" eyes see through them.

As a house painter, people frequently ask me about color and how I see things. I always respond by saying that I had my eyes lazar zapped, so I probably will see things differently than they will.

When it comes to looking through a glass, my eyes see very well through Swarovski and Leica but when it comes to Zeiss, I see just as well/much through a Leuopold or Nikon spotter or binocular. So please take that into account as well.

 

[Clarktar]

Moral of the story is..... Buy Kowa Spotter. Hey, I have one for sale!! PM me for special easter pricing!

 

[BIGHORNtracks]

This might help.

View attachment 35027

 

[marktole]

BIGHORNtracks, your link goes no where.

 

[AK Troutbum]

This might help.

View attachment 35027

Actually no, it doesn't help at all.

 

[sneaky]

Actually no, it doesn't help at all.

lol

 

[Brasco20]

I returned the vortex for this very reason. At high mag it wasn't any more clear than my $500 Nikon. I ended up getting the kowa and am super happy with it. I figured I might as well spend the extra grand to have a great scope instead of regretting not spending every time I looked through the razor