Suppressed Group Sizes (Need Help)

[BrentH]

I’ll start off by saying I am brand new to suppressors.

This winter I bought two suppressors for two different rifles.

First gun is a Seekins PH2 in 6.5 PRC that I stuck a TBAC Magnus on using the Area 419 Hellfire system. Going from a TiPro brake to the Magnus, I saw zero POI shift and my group size tightened up.

Took out the second gun today, which is a Ruger American GoWild in 6.5 CM. Has a Leupold Freedom CDS scope and (I think) Talley or Warne rings (I know, I know).

This gun/scope has been rock solid the last 4 years riding around in the truck and/or side by side, always held zero, and my son has taken deer from 100-430 yards with it. Last season I shot it at the beginning of the season to confirm it was still on and then put it away, as my son wanted to shoot the PRC.

My daughter is going to start hunting this year, so I added the suppressor, TBAC Ultra9 (6.5 cal) using the Hellfire system, and also added some weight to the buttstock via some steel rods wrapped in bubble wrap to heavy up the gun a little.

First shots today with the suppressor at 100 yards were about 1-2’ high and a couple feet to the right. Moved it in to 50 yards so I could get it back on paper at 100.

Next 4-shot group was all over the place:


Let the gun/suppressor cool all the way down and shot another 3-shot group. Still bad, but not AS bad.

Let the gun/suppressor cool one more time, and at this point I was down to the last three rounds of ammo I had brought with me (wasted too many getting it back on paper at 100). Again, this group was better, but still not what I have come to expect from this gun:



So, now I’m questioning is there something about the gun that doesn’t like the suppressor hanging off the end, or has my budget-friendly scope/ring combination finally given up the ghost? I made sure the suppressor was threaded on tight (as tight as I could get it with my bare hands) to eliminate that from the equation.

Just wondering if next best course of action is to try a different scope, or something else?

Picture of said gun:

 

[HandgunHTR]

I wouldn't say there was anything wrong yet. Just try a different load. Just because it worked without the suppressor doesn't mean it will with. Each rifle. suppressor, load combo is different.
The POI impact is to be expected, however yours seems a bit extreme.

Have you tried it in a Direct Thread configuration rather than using the QD setup? In my experience, DT will usually result in less shift.

Either way, I would try some different loads before blaming the suppressor.

 

[Dan Carey]

You are clipping one of the baffles. As you shoot it more and more the bullet will wear the baffle out of the way. OK, thats not really acceptable. But I would say the bullet is hitting a baffle.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

You are clipping one of the baffles. As you shoot it more and more the bullet will wear the baffle out of the way. OK, thats not really acceptable. But I would say the bullet is hitting a baffle.

Agreed. If you are getting that much of a shift, it is from a baffle strike. You need to check your mount/adapter.

When I had that problem, it was due to an adapter being out of spec.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[Ringbill27]

Did you test the test accuracy before putting the suppressor on? Were you getting good groups? Did something go wrong with the scope since last season? I’d take the suppressor off, strip it down retorque everything and test the rifle accuracy again.

Unless you did all that then I’d lean toward a issue with the suppressor.

 

[Bowfinn]

Agreed. If you are getting that much of a shift, it is from a baffle strike. You need to check your mount/adapter.

When I had that problem, it was due to an adapter being out of spec.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

Out of curiosity was it a QD/hub style adapter or a DT style adaper?

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Out of curiosity was it a QD/hub style adapter or a DT style adaper?

It was a 1/2-20 to 1/2-28 DT adapter for a Banish 22. Once I replaced the adapter, the problem went away.

My normal POI shift for a suppressor is about 1/2” (whether rimfire or center fire).


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[Macintosh]

I just did a range session with new direct thread suppressor specifically to test poi shift and repeatability of the shift. My CTR didnt shift at all—if it did my groups werent large enough to provide the resolution to see a shift that small. My Lite contour barrel shifted .5mil, and the shift is repeatable—example groups pictured in succession with suppressor on, off and back on.
I’d say it appears your “shift” is extreme and doesnt appear to be consistent. Therefore my guess is that something is either loose (scope, rings, action, etc) or its a baffle strike. For sure make certain action, bases and rings are tight. My first test would be to shoot without the suppressor and compare to your baseline groups…if it tightens up to normal theres a very high probability it’s the suppressor. If not, start looking elsewhere.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Shoot it without the suppressor.


Seems like baffle strike to me.

 

[hickswr]

Run a borescope in the suppressor, a baffle strike will be apparent if present.

 

[BrentH]

Thanks everyone. Everything on the scope is tight. Just ordered a borescope to look thru it and will try and post up my results. Otherwise I will take it back out and shoot it without the suppressor to see what it does.

 

[BrentH]

Took it out to the range today and shot with no suppressor or brake (Area 419 adapter still installed on barrel). Unfortunately, there was a pretty good cross-wind (left to right), but still told me what I needed to know. Started at 25 yards and I was 5” low and 5” left. Made the adjustments to get it close before moving out to 100 yards. After some fine-tuning at 100, I shot this 5-shot group on the 2” circle.

Still waiting for my borescope so I can look thru the suppressor to check for a baffle strike.

Assuming that’s the case, then I’ll have to narrow it down to the adapter or the threads on the barrel.

 

[E.Shell]

You are clipping one of the baffles. As you shoot it more and more the bullet will wear the baffle out of the way. OK, thats not really acceptable. But I would say the bullet is hitting a baffle.

Definitely this, or hitting the end cap. Look at side of the end cap bore for copper streaks). An inch or two is quite common, but 1-2 feet means contact.

 

[XLR]

Another thing to consider here. I believe those stocks have bedding surfaces on them. If you are hanging that much weight on the end of the barrel then those bedding surfaces are going to have even more contact which will show up down range if you have inconsistent pressure.

Judging by how large the group is I would have to doubt thats the issue but its something to consider and look at!

 

[BrentH]

Alright here is a video of me scoping thru the suppressor in the same direction as bullet travel. Sorry it is shaky at times, but I tried to make sure I got a clean shot of each baffle as I passed thru it.

 

[wind gypsy]

Have you looked through the can down the bore to see if it aligns? Cleaning rod can be a helpful tool for this too.

Edit: it does kind of look like some copper on some baffles but not sure if your bore scope might have rubbed on them too? Never had a baffle strike so not sure what it'd look like.

Every time ive looked down a bore with a can attached from breech (with bolt pulled) or muzzle end, it's been apparent that there is adequate clearance with the naked eye.

 

[Ringbill27]

Im not sure but I didn’t see anything that made me feel think it was hitting the baffles.

Have you tried multiple type of ammo? Maybe the ammo itself doesn’t like the suppressor.

 

[Dan Carey]

The bullet is just barely touching a baffle, not ramming into it. Shoot another 20 rounds thru it then scope it again from both ends, not just one way. The size of the groups show maybe a couple thousands of contact. Something like the width of a piece of paper. Check the end cap closely, the bullet is usually showing a strike on the end cap after hitting a baffle. You can also try a piece of gorilla tape on the end cap to see if the bullet is in the center.

 

[BrentH]

The bullet is just barely touching a baffle, not ramming into it. Shoot another 20 rounds thru it then scope it again from both ends, not just one way. The size of the groups show maybe a couple thousands of contact. Something like the width of a piece of paper. Check the end cap closely, the bullet is usually showing a strike on the end cap after hitting a baffle. You can also try a piece of gorilla tape on the end cap to see if the bullet is in the center.

Thanks. I just put the mirror on the scope so I could look at the inside surface edge of the end cap and baffles.

Here is the inside edge of the end cap.


First baffle in from muzzle end (closest to end cap).


Second baffle in from muzzle.


From there towards the barrel, the marks get lighter. I then flipped the suppressor around and the very first baffle in the suppressor (the first one the bullet would pass thru) looks pretty rough to me compared to the others. I shot another video here, and it may be hard to tell. But it almost looks like there may be a metal burr on the surface of the baffle?

 

[Dan Carey]

Looks like you found it. Now, its not the suppressor. Its the attaching mechanism. Take a picture of them.