Stuck on Quick Drop

[HuntHarder]

The full value base wind number is in the binos for the yardage right in front of my face. I don’t care about the yardage, I adjust the left/right base wind number based on actual wind I’m observing and make the call…

Let’s say I have a base wind of 5 MPH in the bino profile for that gun (say one of my Tikka 6 creeds), and I range at “500 yards”. It’s giving me my elevation dial of 2.8 for my current DA and it’s giving me my full value 5 mph (3 o clock or 9 o clock) wind hold number of 0.4.

You obviously dial the 2.8 and then just make the adjustment to that 0.4 wind number to your best guess of actual wind condition/direction and give the call.

I will say I have not fully validated this, but do think it does happen. @ 500 yards with my 6.5 and a 10mph @ 90*. It is a 1/2 moa wind and a 3/4 moa different hold over, depending on if the wind is out of 3:00 or 9:00 according to AB. Do you account for this on shots 500+? Just know to add a little, if its out of 3:00?

This year I did probably the most shooting practice I've done in a while and did notice that it did seem to be pretty spot on. Now that I finally quit being a cheap basterd and grabbed some RF Buenos, just curious which direction and MPH you set your wind. Seems like out of 3:00 has less effect on trajectory and wind.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I will say I have not fully validated this, but do think it does happen. @ 500 yards with my 6.5 and a 10mph @ 90*. It is a 1/2 moa wind and a 3/4 moa different hold over, depending on if the wind is out of 3:00 or 9:00 according to AB. Do you account for this on shots 500+? Just know to add a little, if its out of 3:00?

This year I did probably the most shooting practice I've done in a while and did notice that it did seem to be pretty spot on. Now that I finally quit being a cheap basterd and grabbed some RF Buenos, just curious which direction and MPH you set your wind. Seems like out of 3:00 has less effect on trajectory and wind.

No. I think folks vastly over estimate their ability to hold within a certain MOA or MIL as well.

Slo mo scope cam reviews of timed shots reveals that we think we are, let’s say, “holding 1.3 MILs” when in reality it’s anywhere between 1.1 and 1.4 MILs on timed shots from field positions. Luckily big game animals are, well, big. Haha.

If using a true base wind profile for the gun, a 90 degree and a 270 degree wind have the same MIL calc hold at any MPH wind out to any yardage.

Are you using more of a vector wind type of profile and is the app making a calc for spin drift and aj? Not familiar enough with AB.

 

[Stache Attack]

I just trust that quick drop is good to 400 ish, tolerable on elk to 500. Past 3 I do my best to input wind, double check door, and be for sure on animal range.

 

[HuntHarder]

No. I think folks vastly over estimate their ability to hold within a certain MOA or MIL as well.

Slo mo scope cam reviews of timed shots reveals that we think we are, let’s say, “holding 1.3 MILs” when in reality it’s anywhere between 1.1 and 1.4 MILs on timed shots from field positions. Luckily big game animals are, well, big. Haha.

If using a true base wind profile for the gun, a 90 degree and a 270 degree wind have the same MIL calc hold at any MPH wind out to any yardage.

Are you using more of a vector wind type of profile and is the app making a calc for spin drift and aj? Not familiar enough with AB.

Yeah, AB accounts for spin drift, AJ and coriolis. You don't enable those in your RF?

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Yeah, AB accounts for spin drift, AJ and coriolis. You don't enable those in your RF?

You can, yes, but then you need to establish a vector for those values to be applied accurately.

The base wind is way faster and reliable to WAY past where most should be shooting at animals.

 

[HuntHarder]

You can, yes, but then you need to establish a vector for those values to be applied accurately.

The base wind is way faster and reliable to WAY past where most should be shooting at animals.

This is the 2nd year I have had those inputs enabled in AB. I gotta say, I feel like I notice them on a couple of pieces of steel I have set up. One is 750 yards and 1 is at 850 yards. It's mainly the wind holds that I feel like I notice. @ 800 its over an moa difference 10mph depending on direction. . Highly possible it's in my head or I just misjudge the wind.

 

[Formidilosus]

This is the 2nd year I have had those inputs enabled in AB. I gotta say, I feel like I notice them on a couple of pieces of steel I have set up. One is 750 yards and 1 is at 850 yards. It's mainly the wind holds that I feel like I notice. @ 800 its over an moa difference 10mph depending on direction. . Highly possible it's in my head or I just misjudge the wind.

Turn it all off. For one, it massively overestimates the effect with certain combinations. But, all it does is complicate the whole thing. No one is calling wind in the terminal range of bullets inside the effects AJ and spin drift.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

This is the 2nd year I have had those inputs enabled in AB. I gotta say, I feel like I notice them on a couple of pieces of steel I have set up. One is 750 yards and 1 is at 850 yards. It's mainly the wind holds that I feel like I notice. @ 800 its over an moa difference 10mph depending on direction. . Highly possible it's in my head or I just misjudge the wind.

Hits are hits haha.

If you’re taking the time to input a best guessed vector and then best guess wind speed, at 750 and 850, applying the extra ballistics masturbation calcs can work fine and lead to hits, but’s it’s just not needed in hunting animals really. Plus if your vector and speed aren’t correct, they just add noise into the calc anyway and most programs suck at properly applying. What about an update to the call for the shooter if they miss? What about an update to call before they shoot (wind is WAY more dynamic than most realize). It’s way easier to adjust and call from the base 5 or base 10 on the fly to give the shooter good calls.

 

[HuntHarder]

Turn it all off. For one, it massively overestimates the effect with certain combinations. But, all it does is complicate the whole thing. No one is calling wind in the terminal range of bullets inside the effects AJ and spin drift.

While I completely agree with not calling the wind accurately enough inside the effects, why not use the proper imputs to have a baseline more accurate start? Is it not 100% proven that the 3 effects do affect bullet flight?

They have little to no effect on majority of hunting range shots, but I feel like I notice them at longer range practice. Might be on my head tho.

 

[HuntHarder]

Hits are hits haha.

If you’re taking the time to input a best guessed vector and then best guess wind speed, at 750 and 850, applying the extra ballistics masturbation calcs can work fine and lead to hits, but’s it’s just not needed in hunting animals really. Plus if your vector and speed aren’t correct, they just add noise into the calc anyway and most programs suck at properly applying. What about an update to the call for the shooter if they miss? What about an update to call before they shoot (wind is WAY more dynamic than most realize). It’s way easier to adjust and call from the base 5 or base 10 on the fly to give the shooter good calls.

I agree, not needed for 90% of hunting/ hunters. The AB app lets you move the wind vector pretty instantaneously. I really only use the feature during practice or if it is a long shot and we have plenty of time. My vector and speed are probably never 100% correct lol. Hopefully in the ballpark and they have been. Shooting Pdogs a few weeks ago in 20-25 mph winds was a great challenge.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I agree, not needed for 90% of hunting/ hunters. The AB app lets you move the wind vector pretty instantaneously. I really only use the feature during practice or if it is a long shot and we have plenty of time. My vector and speed are probably never 100% correct lol. Hopefully in the ballpark and they have been. Shooting Pdogs a few weeks ago in 20-25 mph winds was a great challenge.

Yeah man. Varmint hunting in rolling foothills with extreme wind taught me an incredible amount regarding wind. It’s probably the best target practice and wind practice a guy can do if the terrain includes some topography along with the wind.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Yeah man. Varmint hunting in rolling foothills with extreme wind taught me an incredible amount regarding wind. It’s probably the best target practice and wind practice a guy can do if the terrain includes some topography along with the wind.

Speaking of... Lunch break shooting conditions earlier. Volume up.

 

[BAKPAKR]

Assuming the main benefit of QD is the speed it gives you in taking the shot, what part of the shot process takes the longest for you guys? For me, it is by far my wind call. Admittedly, I am not a master wind caller. Typically on longer shots, where wind matters, I like to bounce my wind # off my buddy and see what he thinks. Also need to get an exact direction and study the terrain to determine if the wind is constant or more likely, more or less than felt at the shooting position.

I am with you. I am ok with the idea that getting a neutered cartridge that fits QD is fine on targets or in war, but if I am hunting at long range, my main concern would be wind and I want a cartridge that shoots a high BC bullet fast.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

6.5 / 130 in a shorter barrel aligns perfectly. Others below can aline near it if you mange the velocity between 2500-2700 ish. This is not a comprehensive list

6.5 / 140,147,145,etc
6 / 103,105,108,112


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Any factory 6.5cm ammo that will work with QD in a 16 inch barrel or is it going to have to be hand loads?

 

[Nine Banger]

Any factory 6.5cm ammo that will work with QD in a 16 inch barrel or is it going to have to be hand loads?

You'll need a 6.5 PRC to move the high BC bullets at quick drop speed and an 18" barrel if you're at low elevation.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Any factory 6.5cm ammo that will work with QD in a 16 inch barrel or is it going to have to be hand loads?

I am curious about this as well. I haven’t used a barrel shorter than 20”, but I get the same velocity from my 22” Sauer as I was getting from my 20” Tikka.

If I was going to try this, I’d start with the Hornady 140-grain ELDM factory load. It starts at a very consistent 2610 FPS in my rifles.

Another option I would try is the Nosler 140-grain BT load. I got a very consistent 2650 from it.

A guy at my range said he was getting “over 2600” from his 18” Sig Cross with that Hornady load, but I don’t trust that kind of talk enough to cut down a barrel.

 

[JDMBEND]

Reading this thread I am getting a very basic understanding of quick drop. What I am trying to wrap my head around is you all are essentially building your rifle and loads to utilize quick drop?
So you are potentially compromising optimal lethality for quick drop? Please correct me if my limited brain power is not grasping this concept.
I am here to learn. Flame away.

 

[Schmo]

Reading this thread I am getting a very basic understanding of quick drop. What I am trying to wrap my head around is you all are essentially building your rifle and loads to utilize quick drop?
So you are potentially compromising optimal lethality for quick drop? Please correct me if my limited brain power is not grasping this concept.
I am here to learn. Flame away.

There are some guys that are intentionally down-loading loads to match up with QD. I personally don’t like this method, but to each their own.

Some cartridges/loads will work with QD by default. To see where your cartridges/loads currently stand, plug your info into a ballistic calculator and see if there is a clean subtraction, or if it requires a correction factor.

 

[Matt5266]

Reading this thread I am getting a very basic understanding of quick drop. What I am trying to wrap my head around is you all are essentially building your rifle and loads to utilize quick drop?
So you are potentially compromising optimal lethality for quick drop? Please correct me if my limited brain power is not grasping this concept.
I am here to learn. Flame away.

I dont build my rifle to quick drop, some might. But it just ends up lining up with alot of calibers, especially alot of us on the forum are cutting barrels down and shooting heavy for caliber bullets.

But other side of the coin. Do you really think taking a gun that shoots 3000 fps and in one way or another making it shoot 2750 fps is "compromising optimal lethality"? Just as an example (caliber and bullet will dictate this) it might take that bullets max effective range from 850 yards to 700 yards. Most people probably shouldn't be shooting at animals at 700 yards let alone 850 yards. So what are you losing?

 

[alexnelon]

Reading this thread I am getting a very basic understanding of quick drop. What I am trying to wrap my head around is you all are essentially building your rifle and loads to utilize quick drop?
So you are potentially compromising optimal lethality for quick drop? Please correct me if my limited brain power is not grasping this concept.
I am here to learn. Flame away.

“Optimal lethality” is just the velocity window that a bullet kills an animal. With high BC bullets, that window is about 500-600 yards wide. Downloading just shifts where that window is so that it lines up with QD.

Made up numbers here just for reference but if you’re shooting an ELDM that kills well from 2400 down to 1800 fps, downloading your muzzle velocity from 2900 to 2750 just shifts your window to 150-750 yards instead of 250-850. If you don’t usually shoot past 600, there’s not really a downside.