Stuck in tuning...need help

[Vandy321]

The not so quick and dirty of where this started and where I'm at. Looking for thoughts on what to do next. I'm close, but no cigar.

Shooting 64#, 27" draw, RH, 400 spine axis, 125 field points and IW 125S broadheads, AAE max stealth, RH helical.

String was a new ABB this summer. Was shooting great, archers moa consistently out to 70 outdoors (limiting my hunting to 50 yards and in, ideally)

Shop told me to come back at 300 or 400 arrows and check timing, and paper tune, as strings will loosen up around then.

Just prior to that, threw on a board head and grouped with 3 field points. BH was high left about 2" in total at 20 yards. Field points have always been a consistent <1.5" group at 20 and they were dead on again.

Paper tune was high left tear. New helper at shop. Moved QAD rest right and helped but didnt fix left tear completely..said shoot broadheads again.

Went back to the more experienced fella at the shot the next day, he checked cam timing, good. Paper tear, still high left. Messed with tophat, tear high right now. Adjust that back, moved nock point down. End result, tear not perfect, but close. slightly low/left.

Re-zero'd w/field points, dead nuts, 1" groups at 20. Broadheads 1.5" high, 1.5" right.

Take it back and paper tune again? Move rest right and nock point up slightly? Being picky here, need to shoot them at 60, but want them to group w/field points at 20 first.

Lots of words, for those who followed, thanks. Any suggestions? I'm no expert on a bow and dont have a paper setup other than the shop. Just have a rinehart in my garage to shoot at 20 from the street.

 

[Billy Goat]

I don't pay much attention to paper. It gets you close. If you are limited to 20 yards you might be best to start bareshaft tuning.

I'd work to tune the up and down out first. Your nock point needs to come up, or your rest come down. Spin your loop up the serving one or two times around, or drop your rest slightly, like 1/32".

See what happens when you get them all on the same elevation. Check the centershot. I'd prefer to get it dialed in with top hats if your centershot is around 13/16".

Take notes on what you do so you remember, easy to get confused. Make marks on your rest if you get to moving it around, might be you need to go back to where you had it and start over. Make sure you are using more than one arrow/broadhead combination to get your results.

 

[Ucsdryder]

What bow? How long are your arrows? How heavy are your inserts?

 

[Vandy321]

Unsure on inserts...whatever black ovis built me. Cut to 27", shooting the short ATA Mathew triax

 

[Rob5589]

For one, you need to be shooting your bow, if you're not that is.
By "high left" I assume you have a multiple tear. Fix the vertical first, then horizontal. You are also right on the edge of underspined.

 

[Brendan]

Sounds like you're weak. Need stiffer arrows, or drop point weight and/or draw weight. I'd test by screwing out your limb bolts a couple turns (check manual) and putting on 100 grain points to see if that helps. If that's it, my solution would be to buy 340 spine arrows.

Also - I'd just ignore the paper tear. You can test yourself by shooting broadheads vs. field points so you don't need to go to the shop. I prefer using top hats with a Mathews, but tweaking the rest for testing until you figure out the issue is fine.

 

[Billy Goat]

Sounds like you're weak. Need stiffer arrows, or drop point weight and/or draw weight. I'd test by screwing out your limb bolts a couple turns (check manual) and putting on 100 grain points to see if that helps. If that's it, my solution would be to buy 340 spine arrows.


View attachment 209455

Where is it at if he looses an inch of arrow?

I wouldn't have thought a 27" draw would push an arrow that hard. If he is 27" draw on 27" arrow he can probably loose an inch of arrow if tip weight or poundage adjustment shows it to be weak spine issue.

 

[Brendan]

Where is it at if he looses an inch of arrow?

I wouldn't have thought a 27" draw would push an arrow that hard. If he is 27" draw on 27" arrow he can probably loose an inch of arrow if tip weight or poundage adjustment shows it to be weak spine issue.

Didn't save it, but even at losing an inch and a half of arrow he's still just a little bit under "ideal". Anything you can cut off the back of the arrow and still maintain rest clearance will help, but you might need to re-fletch. Would need to try it and test...

FWIW, I run an arrow length about 1.5" less than my draw length.

If you combine that with a lighter point weight, would be fine, but then you're losing total arrow weight and FOC starts to drift close to or under 10%. If after testing it is a spine issue, I think the right solution is probably buy stiffer arrows.

 

[5 shot group]

You can try adjusting your rest. Chase your field points. Field points high and right of your broadheads, move your rest a little bit up (¹/³²") and a little right (¹/³²") and see if things improve. If not, move your rest a little more and shoot again.

That will change your point of impact for both, but this has a larger influence on the BH, so they will move more.

After they group together, adjust your sight.

 

[Billy Goat]

Just glancing thru my stuff and that setup is right in the middle of 340 spine. When I just looked it over I thought it would be on the edge between 400-340.

I'd definitely be switching shafts.

 

[Vandy321]

Thanks fellas. I was worried I might be a on the border of under spined. Woll roll it back a pound, cut shafts down an 1" and tune it once more.

What makes me think it's the tune vs the spine, is that BH has the same point of impact each time. Would it be repeatable with a weak spine, or more sporadic.

Wish I had time to order new arrows, i'm just not sure I can square that corner, and get them flying before my hunt.

 

[Billy Goat]

You probably need to loose 5#. That will still put you on edge with spine. See how long your arrow would be if you cut arrows 3/4"-1" ahead if your rest.

You can have broadheads impact a consistent spot with a weak spine.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Thanks fellas. I was worried I might be a on the border of under spined. Woll roll it back a pound, cut shafts down an 1" and tune it once more.

What makes me think it's the tune vs the spine, is that BH has the same point of impact each time. Would it be repeatable with a weak spine, or more sporadic.

Wish I had time to order new arrows, i'm just not sure I can square that corner, and get them flying before my hunt.

don’t touch your arrows. Turn it down 8-10lbs and re-shoot. You’ll find out pretty quick if it’s spine. once you turn it down, you might have to re-tune slightly to make sure everything is in spec.

that being said, did you buy the bow from the shop? The shop shouldn’t let you leave until it’s shooting bullet holes. Close isn’t good enough. I’d go back to the shop and have them try again. They should have a 340 spine arrow built that you can try as well.

 

[Vandy321]

to close this up...

Went down and shot a 27" 340 spine...better for sure, and going that route after this season. I shot a 26" 400 spine, to see if cutting an inch helped, didn't help, made low tear lower.

Tuned again to my current setup, broadhead and fieldpoints are grouping together, 1" at 20 yards...bullet holes on paper tune finally as well. Going to walk it out to distance. If it holds, great, if they open up a bit, going to just sight in for BH's to get me set for the season, then go to 340 after.

Thanks for all the inputs and suggestions folks...big help.

 

[rclouse79]

Sounds like a bad dream I was having all last season. I moved everything and nothing helped. Got stiffer arrows with more weight up front this year and everything was magically fixed.