Struggling to Achieve a Zero at 100 yards.

[sont5413]

I am having trouble getting a good zero at 100 yards (3-shot groups, 3 MOA) and have a few questions related to that. First, I'll lay out some facts and assumptions:

Equipment:
1) Gun: Rem Model 700 .30-06, wood stock, adjustable cheek rest, LOP=13.25
2) Scope: Leupold VX-3i 4.5-14x50mm
3) Ammo: Rem Core-Lokt's 180 GR PSP
4) EGW $40 Pic Rail 0 MOA

Rail Bedding/Scope Mounting:
1) Rail Bedding: used Jeff Broz method
2) Scope Mounting: Used Formidilosus' post as guidance
3) Leveling scope to barrel/gravity: Used scope level resting on flat iron sight (see image of gun) and put the reticle flush to a de facto plumb bob with a DFAT on there.

Description of Zeroing set-up: from a bench rest using front and rear caldwell sand bags (can't get prone at 100 yards at my range).

Here goes my assumptions:

1) I need to shoot more than 3 shots to get better data to see where the group is and confirm zero
2) I am not a great shooter, and am probably not using great trigger control, proper breathing, and otherwise introducing more error into the rifle than a competent shooter would be.
3) I plan to buy some better ammunition and collect data on it prior to hunting this Fall (see question 1).

Here is my question:

1) How much would better ammo (e.g., federal premium nosler accubond 180 GR) decrease MOA (given no human error to the system)?

 

[Sccritterkiller]

FWIW my rm700 06 wont shoot Remington or 185s very well...165gr federals shoot great...try different brands bullet weights if your sure scope is mounted properly.

 

[Apollo117]

That's the kind of group I got out of my Remington 7600 30'06 shooting any grain CoreLokt ammo. I switched to Federal Power Shock and started getting 1.5 MOA at 100 yards.

I agree with @Sccritterkiller. Try a couple of different brands of ammo.

 

[Cahunter805]

I agree with above. Try a few other brands and bullet weights. Seems your rifle just doesn’t like the 180gr Core-Lokt’s. Blue box Federal loads are a good choice or the 180 accubonds would be good also.
A good trigger job would be another recommendation. Also a simple bedding job on the recoil lug and tang if your trying to squeeze some more accuracy out of it.

 

[DJL2]

I don't expect your issue would improve with volume - 10 shot groups (for example) are great for understanding your rifles CEP, but they're not necessary to adjust POI initially. I wouldn't consider a 3 MOA group acceptable, so I'd be far less interested in finding true group center via a larger sample versus finding an ammo/rifle setup that'll shoot.

 

[bsnedeker]

I agree with the above, but you also must get your own shooting process down or you will just be chasing your tail. One thing that has helped me a LOT is just slowing down. When I'm practicing with my rifle I'll dry fire 3-5 times before I jack a round into the chamber and I treat each dry fire as if it were a real shot You will learn a lot about your form from this. Your reticle shouldn't be moving very much at all through your shot process and you'll see it by dry-firing the rifle.

 

[Spoonman]

Try some quality ammo in different brands and weights. The rifle will let you know what it likes best!

 

[Billinsd]

Here is my personal check list to shoot submoa, assuming the rifle and reloads are fine.

Front and rear rests must be aligned, not crooked. The rifle must freely recoil straight back. The front rest can't skip, or bounce. Your front stock screw can't hit the front rest. You must use the pad of your finger, you must breath out, you must have tension on the trigger before pulling. You must hold the stock firm and the same each shot

 

[Sccritterkiller]

I will add I took the sites off mine...that damn front site hangs on everything, totally shredded the inside of a couple soft cases. Get some plugs for the holes if you decide to take them off so the threads dont get fouled and you can reinstall them if you ever want to. Also unless you have swapped the trigger out I wouldnt trust it. Let us know is she tightens up with some different feed.
Good Luck!

 

[30338]

If you live in Colorado, I'll loan you a scope and rings just to insure it isn't the scope.

 

[Fatcamp]

Are you flinching? Any other rifles you shoot?

Wear a heavy jacket when shooting. 30/06 is no joke regardless of what all the tough guys say.

 

[EastMT]

I would try some Federal ammo in 150, 165, 180 grain. Sometimes a rifle just doesn’t like certain weights or bullets.

 

[Mike Islander]

I am having trouble getting a good zero at 100 yards (3-shot groups, 3 MOA) and have a few questions related to that. First, I'll lay out some facts and assumptions:

Equipment:
1) Gun: Rem Model 700 .30-06, wood stock, adjustable cheek rest, LOP=13.25
2) Scope: Leupold VX-3i 4.5-14x50mm
3) Ammo: Rem Core-Lokt's 180 GR PSP
4) EGW $40 Pic Rail 0 MOA

Rail Bedding/Scope Mounting:
1) Rail Bedding: used Jeff Broz method
2) Scope Mounting: Used Formidilosus' post as guidance
3) Leveling scope to barrel/gravity: Used scope level resting on flat iron sight (see image of gun) and put the reticle flush to a de facto plumb bob with a DFAT on there.

Description of Zeroing set-up: from a bench rest using front and rear caldwell sand bags (can't get prone at 100 yards at my range).

Here goes my assumptions:

1) I need to shoot more than 3 shots to get better data to see where the group is and confirm zero
2) I am not a great shooter, and am probably not using great trigger control, proper breathing, and otherwise introducing more error into the rifle than a competent shooter would be.
3) I plan to buy some better ammunition and collect data on it prior to hunting this Fall (see question 1).

Here is my question:

1) How much would better ammo (e.g., federal premium nosler accubond 180 GR) decrease MOA (given no human error to the system)?

I get 0.5 - 0.75 moa with 150 grain Remington Core Lokt in my 1972 and 1999 BDL 700s.

Something is wrong. My guess is scope. If you are not a good shooter, can you find someone that is to help?

 

[sont5413]

If you live in Colorado, I'll loan you a scope and rings just to insure it isn't the scope.

If you live in Colorado, I'll loan you a scope and rings just to insure it isn't the scope.

Thanks! But i'm down here in Austin, TX. Will be giving it a go in Colorado's Unit 751 for 2nd rifle OTC Elk.

 

[sont5413]

I get 0.5 - 0.75 moa with 150 grain Remington Core Lokt in my 1972 and 1999 BDL 700s.

Something is wrong. My guess is scope. If you are not a good shooter, can you find someone that is to help?

Thanks. What would you troubleshoot with the scope?

 

[jmav58]

My rifle and scope are near identical to yours. Mine is a 1993 model and I've been shooting 175 grain Federal Terminal Ascent's out of it and it's shooting stellar.

 

[TheGDog]

You can have WILDLY different results with different ammo! With my .308 Win. when I first took it out... after I'd first sighted it in with a Lead-Free hunting round, the plan was I'd switch over to a less-expensive regular ol' lead-round just to get some trigger time to get used to the rifle.

These were nice large-sized target papers. Bought large specifically since I was going to sight-in.

When I was shooting with the crappy Fiocchi "Shooting Dynamics" I think it was Soft-Nosed lead jacketeds... it wasn't even hitting the entire target! After driving myself insane for several rounds... I then switched back to the lead-free's?... and BOOM... back to being centered.

And I mean... like I figured there would likely be *some* difference in POI... but to completely miss the entire dang target!?? Did NOT know that was even a possibility! So there ya go with my $.02

 

[slvrslngr]

The other posts pretty much covered what I was going to suggest. I will add that if you don’t consider yourself a good shot, invest in a decent 22 rimfire or even a 223 to practice with. You can spend much more time getting your form down without beating yourself up with the -06.

 

[TheGDog]

BTW, I once experienced with my .223 Rem bolt gun, a problem with a scope mounting screw that had it's threads become stripped a little during install. Was just one screw, but that's all it takes. You're firing, and adjusting, things seem to be getting honed in, then next shot... What the..?? And you're all like, "I Know I'm a Better Shot than that!" it was just almost on zero two seconds ago, so what the heck?

The amount by which it can toggle or waggle... from one side to the other... though it is such a small amount you could not perceive it by looking at your rifle on the bench,when it waggles from the previous firing and shakes over to "the other side" your shot will all of a sudden be off going the other direction now, and it won't make sense.

That's when I started using DNZ 1-piece mounts and have continued using them ever since. The are VERY tough mounts too. Had my Marlin 336 in my hand when I experienced a slip-and-fall crossing a creek at 32 F that resulted in a shattered wrist, and the lip of the objective end of the Weaver classic 1-3x20mm scope even getting bent a bit. Once I healed... that scope was STILL ZEROED! The force of the fall shattered the distal head of my radius into four petals and took 13 screws and a plate that looks kinda like a Gillette shaver in there to put it all back together. As a result I have extreme faith in those DNZ mounts now.

 

[Mike Islander]

Thanks. What would you troubleshoot with the scope?

Well, first I would grab another brand of 150, 165, and 180 ammo. If that doesn't help, I'd swap out the scope. Doesn't need to be an expensive scope. You should get 1 moa with cheap scope and most factory ammo.

While my rifles shoot lights out with Rem. 150 Core-Loct, I did have poor results with Federal 165 grain Nosler ballistic tip.