Struggling to Achieve a Zero at 100 yards.

[Reburn]

My issue seems to be that my groups are just really big (e.g., 2.5-5 MOA). Wouldn't checking out the scope be the first thing to check if my groups were acceptable (for me, right now, under 2 MOA), but the zero of those 2 MOA groups were shifting around?

Anyway, thanks Reburn for the idea about the SWFA and sending back the leupold in the event that gun and I shoot lights out after mounting it. So Tumbleweed would charge hundreds of dollars to check the scope against a objectively well-performing scope (not including ammo?)

Yep. One range trip to see it wont shoot. back to shop. put a known good scope on it and remount all rings and bases. back to range to shoot again. best case scenario you had a bad scope.
pay $250 for that info.

 

[sont5413]

Yep. One range trip to see it wont shoot. back to shop. put a known good scope on it and remount all rings and bases. back to range to shoot again. best case scenario you had a bad scope.
pay $250 for that info.

Word. Thanks. Man, I'm so ready to have a dialed rifle and get off the damn bench.

 

[slvrslngr]

The more I look at the target pics, the more I suspect it’s something other than the scope. Have you done a scope tracking test? If so then I’d scrub the barrel really well and look for severe pitting. If the bore looks good, then check to see if the base mounting screws are binding, then check to see if the mag box is binding. Is the barrel free floated? That’s another easy check. It could also just need bedding. Ugh, so many little things it could be...

 

[Robert March]

Buy a few different brands and grains of ammo. I usually buy 3-4 different rounds and see what one my gun likes best. Best of Luck.

 

[gelton]

Word. Thanks. Man, I'm so ready to have a dialed rifle and get off the damn bench.

All the advice pointing to the scope is good advice. Test the tracking and see if it tracks. I spent 8-24 months chasing my tail with a Rem 700 30.06 and a VX3 scope from the early 80's. Turned out the scope was jacked and Leopold replaced it for me at no charge. It was a problem with the erector, each time I adjusted it would lose zero.

 

[gelton]

Also, I lived in Austin for 12 years and just relocated to the country, if you want you can head my way and shoot on my property, I am about 2.5 hours north of Austin between Waco and Dallas, but I would bet my bottom dollar its the scope.

 

[sont5413]

All the advice pointing to the scope is good advice. Test the tracking and see if it tracks. I spent 8-24 months chasing my tail with a Rem 700 30.06 and a VX3 scope from the early 80's. Turned out the scope was jacked and Leopold replaced it for me at no charge. It was a problem with the erector, each time I adjusted it would lose zero.

Gelton, thanks for the anecdote! Do you recall if your groups were within your expectations (i.e., they were not erratic in form, and tight enough)? Was the width of your groups changing with every group? Or was group-size staying constant, it's just that your zero was changing? This troubleshooting is super frustrating, I'm ready to do the real practice of shooting from hunting positions.

 

[sont5413]

Also, I lived in Austin for 12 years and just relocated to the country, if you want you can head my way and shoot on my property, I am about 2.5 hours north of Austin between Waco and Dallas, but I would bet my bottom dollar its the scope.

That is very generous of you to offer. I'm gonna see if I can get a loaner scope from somebody here in Austin to test it out.

 

[sont5413]

Buy a few different brands and grains of ammo. I usually buy 3-4 different rounds and see what one my gun likes best. Best of Luck.

Thanks. In the gun you currently use. How did the best and worst ammo group (i.e., inches or in MOA)? Feel free to PM me, instead of discussing on thread, if you like

 

[gelton]

Gelton, thanks for the anecdote! Do you recall if your groups were within your expectations (i.e., they were not erratic in form, and tight enough)? Was the width of your groups changing with every group? Or was group-size staying constant, it's just that your zero was changing? This troubleshooting is super frustrating, I'm ready to do the real practice of shooting from hunting positions.

I could shoot good groups but was always having to rezero and each time I did the tracking was way off so I was back to square one.

 

[sndmn11]

If you are hesitant to buy a new scope, you could pull it off and shoot the iron sights.

 

[rayporter]

Leopold will check em out and fix em. heck, i pretty much send any scope i buy used back for a check up.
just give a song about the guy you bought it from said it was bad and send it back.

 

[sont5413]

I just mounted and leveled a scope on it. It's an old bushnell 3-9, sportview, made in Korea. Had been using it forever on my .243 deer rifle. It's by no means tried and true as I haven't put it on sand bags at 100 yards and shot it. However, it's an experiment that is better than doing nothing. Will let you all know how it went.

 

[Cahunter805]

I just mounted and leveled a scope on it. It's an old bushnell 3-9, sportview, made in Korea. Had been using it forever on my .243 deer rifle. It's by no means tried and true as I haven't put it on sand bags at 100 yards and shot it. However, it's an experiment that is better than doing nothing. Will let you all know how it went.

That will definitely help diagnose your problems. I also agree with sending in your Leupold and having it checked. Just tell them it’s not holding zero.

 

[sont5413]

Same conditions, different scope (old bushnell sportview, 3-9). I had 5 bullets; it took me two to get on paper after adjusting turrets. Thus, after turret adjustment, I shot the 3-bullet group at 100 yards as seen below. Max spread is 3.553 inches.



This seems to support the idea that it's not obviously the scope giving an issue in this case, though more ammo would surely paint a clearer picture. I am gonna take it to the gunsmith next week. I will say, shooting this .3006 with a 178 grain bullet sucks. . . I am kind of liking the idea of getting a smaller caliber hunting gun, such as the 6.5 CM.

 

[sont5413]

I have a question for you all:

1) Could I mount and test my scope on my smaller caliber rifle (.17 HMR)? Or is it simply not apples to apples because the recoil is so different?

 

[sndmn11]

I have a question for you all:

1) Could I mount and test my scope on my smaller caliber rifle (.17 HMR)? Or is it simply not apples to apples because the recoil is so different?

Yes absolutely. You don't even need to sight it in any more than being on paper, just keep a consistent aiming point. If you're have enough time and ammo, you could run through a box test.

I think you would be spinning your wheels though and should just take it to a gunsmith since fixing the action screws did nothing. The only other variable outside of the fun itself would be the rings and bases.

Since I am comfortable tinkering, I would take the rings and bases off to see if there is a sheared or loose screw, and I would find the other half of the rear sight and shoot it with iron sights.

 

[Tbone58]

Couple things I found with my Remington rifles that make a difference. The triggers aren’t good. They had problems with them and they are heavy pre set to 5-7lbs. That could be part of the grouping problem.

Also Remington core loc ammo isn’t very good. It gets the job done but isn’t accurate ammo. I’ve killed a lot of deer with it but I switched because I was looking for better accuracy and not just hitting a milk jug at 100 yards. I personally shoot hornady sst in most of my guns but I shoot federal nosler accubonds in my 7mm rem mag.

buy different ammo and try them out and see what your gun likes. Each gun is different.

Also breathing is key while shooting. Squeezing the trigger while breathing can push or pull the shot.

Get out to the range and practice and youll be a better shot

 

[sont5413]

Couple things I found with my Remington rifles that make a difference. The triggers aren’t good. They had problems with them and they are heavy pre set to 5-7lbs. That could be part of the grouping problem.

Have heard this about the trigger.

Also Remington core loc ammo isn’t very good. It gets the job done but isn’t accurate ammo. I’ve killed a lot of deer with it but I switched because I was looking for better accuracy and not just hitting a milk jug at 100 yards. I personally shoot hornady sst in most of my guns but I shoot federal nosler accubonds in my 7mm rem mag.

buy different ammo and try them out and see what your gun likes. Each gun is different.

Have tried corelokt's (150 and 180GR) and hornady eld-x's.

I'm not sure that buying more ammo at this point will do much for me at this point. Going to take it to a gunsmith to see if there's anything glaringly mechanically wrong with rifle.

Get out to the range and practice and youll be a better shot

I'm at the range every week. I'm reading ryan cleckner and jeff coopers book. Listening to a ton of podcasts to get this thing dialed. It's become an obsession. Not totally sure it's me at this point. I've got the gun on bags at 100 with VERY little reticle movement before the shot breaks, ostensibly. Just a had a shooter at my range shoot a terrible group with it with the ELD-X's. Just tried a different scope on it. Shot > 3MOA. Time to get it looked at to check that box. I've run out of variables I can check the box on.

 

[Fatcamp]

Same conditions, different scope (old bushnell sportview, 3-9). I had 5 bullets; it took me two to get on paper after adjusting turrets. Thus, after turret adjustment, I shot the 3-bullet group at 100 yards as seen below. Max spread is 3.553 inches.

View attachment 203683

This seems to support the idea that it's not obviously the scope giving an issue in this case, though more ammo would surely paint a clearer picture. I am gonna take it to the gunsmith next week. I will say, shooting this .3006 with a 178 grain bullet sucks. . . I am kind of liking the idea of getting a smaller caliber hunting gun, such as the 6.5 CM.

Have you determined it's not you? I think it is. Not because I am mean but because I went through the same exact thing with my first rifle, a 30/06. Shoot big guns well now, but it has been a process.

And if you find the 3-9 SWFA for sale pick me up one too.