Stop the wolf....

[ElkElkGoose]

A lot of conflicting opinions here.

I have noticed that regardless of subject matter, 95% of the people on the internet dont know what the f they are talking about. Only slightly better stats in person.

I'd appreciate a biologist with some actual stats and studies of cause than all this bro science.

 

[sneaky]

A lot of conflicting opinions here.

I have noticed that regardless of subject matter, 95% of the people on the internet dont know what the f they are talking about. Only slightly better stats in person.

I'd appreciate a biologist with some actual stats and studies of cause than all this bro science.

Some of us live smack in the middle of wolf country and have a pretty damn solid idea of what we're talking about and have sat in on meetings with Fish and Game concerning wolves. Bro science is reserved for the left hand crowd in Colorado. Also, depending on which biologist you talk to will determine whether you get facts or spin. Plenty of wolf loving bios in the world, Colorado is next and the naivety being presented that those things won't wreck your elk herds is comical. Biology by ballots.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[ndbuck09]

We really just need to use better means of killing than trapping and shooting here in Central Idaho to fight the wolves. I like to imagine, what if they never dropped those suckers off in the Frank in 1995. I was 9 and wish I'd have chained myself to the heli or whatever vehicle they used to get em in there...

There's nothing natural about the way Elk have to migrate to winter range across roads, towns, fences, areas where fire has been suppressed for 100 years, and people are present pushing elk all over and expending their energy reserves. This puts the elk at a large disadvantage to what they would have been 100 years ago. It's not rocket science that they could compete better because they didn't have all of these human impediments....

Oh ya, we lost the only Caribou herd that came into the lower 48 due to the predation from wolves...no fuzzy lovers had their pantys twisted about that???

 

[kiddogy]

that's because wolf lovers don't really care about any animals . they really hate them all . the less ungulates , the less hunters . the less hunters the less gun owners . the less gun owners , the easier the surfs are to control.

the wolves are merely a means to get your guns

 

[ElkElkGoose]

Some of us live smack in the middle of wolf country and have a pretty damn solid idea of what we're talking about and have sat in on meetings with Fish and Game concerning wolves. Bro science is reserved for the left hand crowd in Colorado. Also, depending on which biologist you talk to will determine whether you get facts or spin. Plenty of wolf loving bios in the world, Colorado is next and the naivety being presented that those things won't wreck your elk herds is comical. Biology by ballots.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I dont have an opinion either way, and the bro science was on both sides of the discussion. I dont think letting a species grow without a management plan in today's fragmented environments is a good idea and I also dont think a decrease in elk is automatically a bad thing when considering an ecosystem as a whole.

Bring on the data.

 

[87TT]

Using wolves to manage elk and deer is like using a shotgun on flies in your house. It will stop the flies but causes more damage than good. Wolves don't have a closed season or zone. They are killing every day. And what they don't kill, they stress to death. As far as populations are concerned, maybe we need to bring back smallpox or some other disease to control the human over population. I'm being facetious but it boils down the same. Wolves nowadays are not an option if we want to have game to hunt and eat in the lower 48. There just is not enough area for both the predators and ungulates to exist if we want to keep hunting. We have altered the "ecosystem" with too many people for the old way to work. Thinking it will sort itself out is false dream just like socialism. Eventually there will be no more natural prey and we and the other domestic animals will be on the menu.

 

[NUGGET]

I always get a good laugh when people post wolf kills. They are like LOOK AT THIS. Um.....what did you think they ate? I would be more shocked if you posted a huckleberry bush destroyed by wolves.

There must be something in the water of North Idaho. North Idaho hunters are the fly fishermen of the fishing world, they are the top 1%. They are the recurve hunters of the archery world. They look down at all other hunters. They think where they hunt is the thickest steepest stuff in the world. You don't even have to ask them, they constantly remind you. Their hero brandon pitcher in his quest to be famous shot two german shepard dogs.

Its easy to blame the big bad wolf. If it makes you feel better then by all means do it. You guys can hunt them now, don't do anything stupid to jepordize that in the future. If you want to see a sickening video go check out the one on brandons instagram page shooting a wolf in a trap.

 

[87TT]

Wish I could shoot one.

 

[BeaverHunter]

I always get a good laugh when people post wolf kills. They are like LOOK AT THIS. Um.....what did you think they ate? I would be more shocked if you posted a huckleberry bush destroyed by wolves.

There must be something in the water of North Idaho. North Idaho hunters are the fly fishermen of the fishing world, they are the top 1%. They are the recurve hunters of the archery world. They look down at all other hunters. They think where they hunt is the thickest steepest stuff in the world. You don't even have to ask them, they constantly remind you. Their hero brandon pitcher in his quest to be famous shot two german shepard dogs.

Its easy to blame the big bad wolf. If it makes you feel better then by all means do it. You guys can hunt them now, don't do anything stupid to jepordize that in the future. If you want to see a sickening video go check out the one on brandons instagram page shooting a wolf in a trap.

Brandon Pitcher is no hero to anyone I know in north Idaho. You must be projecting your feelings. And I haven't heard or read anyone from north Idaho saying they are the top 1% of elk hunters, not sure where you got that from. Again are you projecting how you feel about yourself, you seem pretty bad ass based on your post. They are upset that a predator got dropped into their hunting units and the elk herds have been negatively affected by that.

 

[GregB]

I always get a good laugh when people post wolf kills. They are like LOOK AT THIS. Um.....what did you think they ate? I would be more shocked if you posted a huckleberry bush destroyed by wolves.

There must be something in the water of North Idaho. North Idaho hunters are the fly fishermen of the fishing world, they are the top 1%. They are the recurve hunters of the archery world. They look down at all other hunters. They think where they hunt is the thickest steepest stuff in the world. You don't even have to ask them, they constantly remind you. Their hero brandon pitcher in his quest to be famous shot two german shepard dogs.

Its easy to blame the big bad wolf. If it makes you feel better then by all means do it. You guys can hunt them now, don't do anything stupid to jepordize that in the future. If you want to see a sickening video go check out the one on brandons instagram page shooting a wolf in a trap.

So you don't like fly fishermen, north Idaho hunters, or recurve hunters, cool, sounds like you have an axe to grind.

 

[xwiscony]

Meateater had a great episode on the reintroductions a few months back.

 

[S.Clancy]

That's another reason why they don't need to be brought into Colorado. Talk about putting the squeeze on deer and elk. Pick your poison. Get hit by a car, or eaten alive.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

From the data I've seen, vehicle strikes aren't the major problem in development. The overwhelming issue is lack of recruitment due to decreased cow elk condition. Basically, once a cow reaches a certain body fat (condition) lower threshold, calf survival is negatively affected in utero (this is about unborn calves). Now, people make the argument that wolves markedly decrease cow elk condition leading to this phenomena, however research shows that it is generally range condition (where development plays its role) that causes this. There is also data to suggest elk that winter near people (with associated traffic hazards, barking dogs, etc) have higher average stress levels leading to lower cow elk condition and lower recruitment. I believe Montana may be investigating this in reference to the Missoula herd that has seen significant population declines in recent years. I'm not saying that wolves have no effect, they undoubtedly do, however the true answer is almost certainly multifactorial.

 

[S.Clancy]

Also, biologically, recruitment is the major issue in regressing wildlife populations. You can remove a large number of adults and retain a stable population, hence why the North American model has worked for a century.

 

[elkstabber]

Colorado is very different than Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana. The city dwellers and political climate will NEVER allow wolf hunting (or trapping) in Colorado. Wolves will be devastating in Colorado.

 

[Justin Crossley]

People can say whatever they want. Wolves in CO will be a huge mistake if you like seeing or hunting elk.

 

[Beendare]

I'd appreciate a biologist with some actual stats and studies of cause than all this bro science.

What do you expect to hear? That 'wolves are essential to the ecosystem?'
Nope, humans can control ungulates at a net positive to society and the economy.


And guess what.....the many millions of $$$, wasted time and wasted resources could have gone to something positive like habitat improvement.

The Quasi biologists and wolf lovers peddled the malarkey that they were endangered for awhile......until that was proven to be a load of horse puckey. Some of the biologist type responsible are no doubt partial to wolves and have let this color their judgement.

I prefer to believe that^....and not the fact that there is millions of $$ sloshing around from the pro wolf orgs that ended up in these biologist types pockets.

Mr Biologist, You want to study wolves, eh...oh sure- wink wink- heres your 'Study' $$$ from the pro wolfers org du jor....just make sure its pro wolf with a lot of biological diversity jargon.

Is Nat Geo going to pay me for a vid on how we can enhance the ecosystem without wolves and feed families at the same time while improving the economy and adding habitat by letting hunters in---I think NOT!

I'm not against wolves....but it only makes sense having wolves in the vast sections of unpopulated North America....no problem, I'm all for it.

But forcibly inject them into areas with dense human populations? Well then why not Bengal tigers for gawds sake?--- THATS how stupid this Colorado proposal is------

We have a clear understanding of the costs involved with the stupidity in the northern states. These dingleberries had no clue to the unintended consequences and HUGE sapping of resources due to this wolf reintroduction, it has;

1) Cost us tens of thousands of wasted man hours; State and Federal employees, biologists, law enforcement, etc
2) Seriously depleted Elk populations- wasted meat that could have gone to feed families

3) Diverted wildlife agency resources and cost the gov huge $$ to try and recover the right to actually manage these ecosystems.

4) Attorney fees- oh man how much $$$ diverted on attorneys- a lot...that doesn't include the wasted court time [on the taxpayers dime] there has there been fighting these EIR's done by disconnected animal rights folks.

5) the cost to Ranchers and farmers. Oh everyone loves to hate these guys...until they want a juicy steak or lamb chop. Lets say someone hits your car in the middle of the night- 3 nights ago while you were gone....the cops come and say its up to you to prove that you didn't do it yourself. Thats essentially what ranchers are up against with getting reimbursed.

Look, There is so many unintended consequences^...THAT WE NOW KNOW due to the total idiots that pushed this wolf intro through in Idaho, Wyoming and Montana.....

THE REAL QUESTION IS; when are we going to start learning from our mistakes?

...

 

[kiddogy]

first mistake we need to learn from....
never trust a scientist. they lie . they scew data . they say anything they must say to obtain the grants that will let them continue to drain society.

 

[NUGGET]

The majority of residents of Colorado wants wolves. This will be proven by the vote. Why should a minority group such as elk hunters keep them from getting that opportunity? Hunter's are a selfish bunch. The world revolves around them.

I'm sure wolves will do just fine in Colorado. I just hope they get to hunt them a little sooner than WY ID and MT were able to.

 

[NUGGET]

Meateater had a great episode on the reintroductions a few months back.

Podcast? Do you remember which one? I would love to listen to it. There was also a podcast with a CO game warden talking about elk and elk calf survival rate/cow pregnancy etc. Its seems like all the traffic in the spring in the high country is affecting elk numbers. It was a great listen. And goes to show how many different factors affect ungulate populations. Some are obvious like wolves, hunters etc, some not so much......

 

[87TT]

The majority of residents of Colorado wants wolves. This will be proven by the vote. Why should a minority group such as elk hunters keep them from getting that opportunity? Hunter's are a selfish bunch. The world revolves around them.

I'm sure wolves will do just fine in Colorado. I just hope they get to hunt them a little sooner than WY ID and MT were able to.

The "majority" of people in Colorado are clueless and probably know more about pot than wildlife management. You will never get to legally hunt wolves in Colorado and once they take over probably not elk either. I would bet if the vote was only people who have lived in Colorado for more than 20 years, it would be different.