Stolen valor in hunting

[Trial153]

I thought the article was well written and clearly stated. The author was clear in his comparison and it made sense.

 

[luke moffat]

The MAIN problem I have with the commercialization of this need to show is that I just had a conversation last week with a brand new archer at the range, and all he could talk about was the amount of gear he needed and how much it was going to cost him to buy it all. He needed Swaro, Kifaru, KUIU, etc before he felt that he could go hunting. THAT is what I am afraid of. I don't give a damn what your Instagram feed says, you don't NEED very much to hunt, and what you need more than anything is time in the field. This guy was going to put off hunting for a year so he could accumulate all of the gear!!!!!!!! To each their own, but we talked for a while and he is set up to hunt in 2015. I just wish we could find a little middle ground.

That is one of my pet peeves as well and very well said. I find it so sad that people are led to believe that you need this brand pack or that brand boot and this brand rifle or bow in order to feel like you really can go hunting. Gear is nice, but the focus on gear over actually going on trips I find annoying.

As for the one upmanship and such, this is one of the main reason I quit posting a vast majority of the animals I have been blessed in being in on in the last couple years. I don't for one feel the need to post them and two I don't want to appear like I am trying to hard. I come on here to help people learn and yes learn myself as I still have much to learn.

Wheres Bruce and Shrek and SHTF, no one is saying there is anything wrong with going out and not getting X amount of animals a season. THe rub lies when folks say "this pack is great for hunting" yet have heck to haul a single animal in it or such for example. We all hunt for different reasons and those trying to make it big by posting photos of them let a promo shot all the time I wish them the best of luck as its an extrmeely competetive market to make any real money in the outdoor industry and one I do not wish to compete in. The Lord has blessed me with a wonderful "real job" that allows me to pursue what I like to do as much I can. Sure I get a break on clothing or gear from certain companies from time to time but I don't beleive I have ever told anyone ever that brand X is the end all be all. I just use my experiences based on what I know works for what amount of hunting and killing I am part of every year just like anyone else.

I think the article is just asking people to be real with themselves and don't protray yourself to be some billy badass when in realitiy its misleading and causing those more nieve to get the wrong impression on whats truly needed to be successful in the field and that is actually getting out there with whatever you have. So sure keep taking those cool selfies on the mountain tops and such and keep hashtagging till your heart is content but don't worry about what everyone else is doing or competeing. I'm more interested in helping others be successful out there than promoting a certain company. Lets help eachother learn and share what we have learned rather than focusing so hard to promoting brand X over brand Y cause in the end TIME in the field is always the biggest factor for success. Luckily success for me doesn't require taking an animal home as if it did I would be one of the biggest failures around, but I do feel to really suggest what gear for hunting works for a person a person should actually tip over or be a part of tipping over a few animals every season to get a feel for what works as opposing to 100% hunting trips that only end in backpack camping trips, not that I don't have a bunch of those every year as well.

 

[Nick Muche]

False personas are nothing new. Anyone remember Kurt Darner?

Hey now, that's Robby's buddy!

 

[Nick Muche]

Well said Luke.

To the folks that are "put off" by the title of the article or the analogy made to Stolen Valor, I can assure you Tyler understands the difference. Not only does he have family in the military but he also has several very close friends and hunting buddies who are either still in or are prior service. He knows the difference, he understands the sacrifice and he was only trying to use it as an analogy (as stated in the article many times).

 

[dotman]

That is one of my pet peeves as well and very well said. I find it so sad that people are led to believe that you need this brand pack or that brand boot and this brand rifle or bow in order to feel like you really can go hunting. Gear is nice, but the focus on gear over actually going on trips I find annoying.

As for the one upmanship and such, this is one of the main reason I quit posting a vast majority of the animals I have been blessed in being in on in the last couple years. I don't for one feel the need to post them and two I don't want to appear like I am trying to hard. I come on here to help people learn and yes learn myself as I still have much to learn.

Wheres Bruce and Shrek and SHTF, no one is saying there is anything wrong with going out and not getting X amount of animals a season. THe rub lies when folks say "this pack is great for hunting" yet have heck to haul a single animal in it or such for example. We all hunt for different reasons and those trying to make it big by posting photos of them let a promo shot all the time I wish them the best of luck as its an extrmeely competetive market to make any real money in the outdoor industry and one I do not wish to compete in. The Lord has blessed me with a wonderful "real job" that allows me to pursue what I like to do as much I can. Sure I get a break on clothing or gear from certain companies from time to time but I don't beleive I have ever told anyone ever that brand X is the end all be all. I just use my experiences based on what I know works for what amount of hunting and killing I am part of every year just like anyone else.

I think the article is just asking people to be real with themselves and don't protray yourself to be some billy badass when in realitiy its misleading and causing those more nieve to get the wrong impression on whats truly needed to be successful in the field and that is actually getting out there with whatever you have. So sure keep taking those cool selfies on the mountain tops and such and keep hashtagging till your heart is content but don't worry about what everyone else is doing or competeing. I'm more interested in helping others be successful out there than promoting a certain company. Lets help eachother learn and share what we have learned rather than focusing so hard to promoting brand X over brand Y cause in the end TIME in the field is always the biggest factor for success. Luckily success for me doesn't require taking an animal home as if it did I would be one of the biggest failures around, but I do feel to really suggest what gear for hunting works for a person a person should actually tip over or be a part of tipping over a few animals every season to get a feel for what works as opposing to 100% hunting trips that only end in backpack camping trips, not that I don't have a bunch of those every year as well.

Well said! i think the people like you and Becca do more for our sport then any selfie influenced billy badass will ever do. You two are very humble for the amount of field time and actual animals taken!

 

[Shrek]

Gee Luke I actually really enjoy your honest hunting posts and if my postings bother you or seem self promoting I hope you can find your way over to settings and put me on ignore. I buy the things I can and enjoy and have some opinions on them. I train with weight so I'm confident that the pack will carry the meat as well as it carries 10L dromedarys and the rest I've used in the field enough to know it works. Sometimes I speculate and sometimes not. I have tipped over plenty of animals just not a bunch out west and thats the attraction to me. I don't get much of anything in the way of promotion discounts for my gear and I don't post selfies either. I think I have posted two pictures with me in them and I just don't take many. I'm also the first to tell anyone that regardless of gear the most important thing is to just go hunting. My Sawtooth I bought used , the Swarovski ATS was bought used , the McMillan was bought used and refurbished. I call and bargain for deals as a plain old customer when I buy things from shops like Cameralandny.com or Campsaver or Bentgate and the rest. I don't actually promote myself and use an avatar that I couldn't possibly commercially use as it's a copyrighted character belonging to a movie studio . It's a nickname I was tagged with when the first movie came out and it has stuck and fits me. I'm here to learn and share as I go along as my local friends really don't care or want to discuss western hunting or backpack hunting. They're still into the deer club and I'm glad they are but it leaves me the odd man out so I come here. So , if you think I'm here to promote gear , myself , or anything other than going hunting and enjoying yourself you've got me wrong and I bet you have the other named members wrong. I post my trips with all the inglorious details included so some others can commiserate and maybe avoid the same mistakes. I tell it like it is for me. Dink deer because I'm frustrated , blisters until I can't walk , cheap gear that failed and drastically altered my trip , great gear that has made me happy ( yes I talk it up ) . The one thing I'm not is commercial though. I begged Aron make me a custom tall frame of that would fit and kifaru made it for full price. When I met Ryan he gave me a TAG bag kit that I put right next to the one I had already bought for full price. How about all the pro discounts I get on my bullets and loading tools. Let me count....none. I tried to get a deal on some First Lite and I did... the public sale that everyone else got. Many here don't get me and my motivation so judge me by their motives.
Btw , I did at one time make my living doing promotion but that was fishing and most of the finest gear made I fished with free but with strings attached. It sucked and I would never ruin hunting for me like I did making fishing and promotion a job did to fishing.

 

[Shrek]

And thanks for taking the swipe at me under the title " stolen valor ". Never have posed with anyone else's animals as my own or claimed anyone's accoplishments as my own. My prior service might get me on that promotive site but I just can't accept a discount for my voluntary service. I chose to do it and was paid a wage like everyone else who does a job and that's how I feel about it.

 

[weaver]

I think you're over reacting Shrek. I didn't read anything negative about you in Luke's post.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

I think you're over reacting Shrek. I didn't read anything negative about you in Luke's post.

Uhhh...this is kinda suggestive of hunter's who may be closet vegans. LOL

"Wheres Bruce and Shrek and SHTF, no one is saying there is anything wrong with going out and not getting X amount of animals a season."

I too have killed my share of critters and packed a lot of weight in my DT1 and do not understand Luke's need to single us 3 out. But I like Luke and it rolls off my back.

 

[weaver]

I read it as him responding to your posts....not as a personal attack

 

[Hoot]

I guess I just look at it a whole lot different than others. If someone only kills one animal with a certain product but is paid to promote it, he's going to promote that product. I agree the commercialization of the hunting industry is ludicrous at times, but thats capitalism, something that also makes this country great. I think it is absolutely ridiculous that a lot of people out there think you have to have thousands and thousands of dollars in gear just to go hunting, that is not the fault of the pro-staffers or the companies, or the magazines, or the shows, or social media, or anything else other than the gullible consumer...

We got Obama, there was a lot of promotion and hype, some people on his campaign were hardly qualified to be any part of politics, but they got out the youth vote, at the end of the day, it's the un-educated voters (consumers) who voted for him...

I'm glad some of you take the time to help educate those with lessor knowledge, but to say that someone in the industry is a faker because he only killed one elk with that camo on, and last year he was wearing that other camo, or that other dude is really hyping brand x but he is also a faker because he's only been hunting for 2 years, is ridiculous, it is not even remotely close to being on the same wave length as stolen valor. It is more like saying a rookie is a faker and shouldn't be posting about his new team after being drafted, and that free-agent is a faker because he left his old team for a better deal, or peyton manning is a faker because he's only won one super bowl and that idiot keeps posting pictures of his only super bowl ring on Facebook....

Don't get me wrong, I think the modern age of technology has definitely perverted not just hunting but our whole society. I am more of a water fowler than anything, and I cringe when I see young kids saying things like, "shot a limit of green heads but no bands, dammit!" And I know if there weren't dvds titled "the band hunters" and waterfowl gear companies called "banded" and all the other hype that those things would have never happened, but I don't think it is Chad Belding or Fred Zink's fault, nor is it anyone's fault who ever staffed for Avery or any other big name company.

My main problem with the article (other than the poor attempt to assimilate with stolen valor, IMO) is that I just don't think it was very constructive to complain about these guys that you deem "fakers" it would have been better to help educate the newer people and constructively lessen the "fakers" influence on them, there was/is a high road, and I don't think it has been taken here....

 

[dotman]

I think you're over reacting Shrek. I didn't read anything negative about you in Luke's post.

I agree, I think Luke was only repling to your guys posts not singling you out but explaining his view point in relation to your posts.

 

[Shrek]

I'm all about killing things. Big , little , and everything in between. My only issue is the pushing of big antlers as a measure of success. To me they're a nice bonus to a freezer full of meat.
As for being insulted I have every right. I was singled out in a thread about stolen valor which does not apply in any way as I do not claim anything other than my own experience and opinions. Some here feel that if I didn't kill a goat I can't tell that my boots give blisters or come apart too easily or my pack full of gear rides great in my pack. If I didn't kill an elk I don't know anything about my tent or my stove. If I ate tag soup I should sit in the corner and shut up according to them. The original artical is pure crybaby bs. If you feel that someone posting some bs photoshop chit or other people's animals on Facebook is stealing your valor then you got insecurity issues. If you think the guy who just signed a contract to promote a product should wait until after the season has passed and has used the product for a season then you live in a utopian fantasy land. These guys are paid salesmen and they better get out and sell it. As long as they're not hiding their paid promotion status then it's all fair game. Hang around a while and pay attention and in no time you will be able to spot the BS artist and the punks. SHTF has hardly posted in a long while and he gets thown under the bus. WTF ! I'm older and my skin is thick so I'll keep posting what I want and the only approval I need is from the owners of this forum and they know that they don't even need to ban me if they want me to go away , just ask.

 

[TEmbry]

Why get worked up over nothing?

All 3 of you had posts pertaining to there being more about hunting than just the kill. Luke was replying to y'all as a group basically saying he agrees but it frustrates him when people pimp how great gear is without having even used it (an example being guys bragging on a pack without having ever even packed an animal with it).

He in no way insinuated you 3 guys were the ones doing it.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

Why get worked up over nothing?

All 3 of you had posts pertaining to there being more about hunting than just the kill. Luke was replying to y'all as a group basically saying he agrees but it frustrates him when people pimp how great gear is without having even used it (an example being guys bragging on a pack without having ever even packed an animal with it).

He in no way insinuated you 3 guys were the ones doing it.

X2
That's how I took it as well.

 

[neverquit]

People still use face book?

And the phrase "stolen Valor" has no business in a conversation about hunting.

 

[luke moffat]

Why get worked up over nothing?

All 3 of you had posts pertaining to there being more about hunting than just the kill. Luke was replying to y'all as a group basically saying he agrees but it frustrates him when people pimp how great gear is without having even used it (an example being guys bragging on a pack without having ever even packed an animal with it).

He in no way insinuated you 3 guys were the ones doing it.

This is what I was trying yo get across but apparently I suck at the written English language and was actually agreeing with them and they took offense. Ugh!!! I can't win for losing. You guys took it all wrong sorry if didn't relate what I was trying to say very well but certainly nothing to take offense to.

 

[SHTF]

Luke I was a bit put off also by your comment but your explanation makes sense to some degree but the fact remains that probably all 3 of us have been called out at one point or another on the forums so when you made the references to me Shrek and Bruce it stinks of stereo typing us. I call it misunderstood so with that said......

Laying my cards out on the table. No I don't feel I need to do this, or owe any of you anything about me but figured since everyone is so quick to judge why not.
I am on Rokslide to enjoy myself and to learn, get great deals, pass out great deals to others, help whoever I can, and share my thoughts and stories just like the rest of you. Maybe sometimes I come across a bit excited about something I've tried, used, and had in my hot little hands.

For that, I changed my sig, to what you see below last year because this same topic came up then. I wanted no more misconceptions about SHTF and who I am, or why I do what I do on Rokslide. I thought it would be good to just have a fine print written on each and every damn post I put up on here. It seems we had some guys who didn't feel I was Uber enough or didn't drop enough game to be posting my opinion about a product. So I got a stern talking too from a few people. It was like your sisters telling on you when your pulling her hair. whatever....
None the less I decided add the fine print below and slow my stroll about my opinions on gear because I can't be out in the mountains 200 days out of the year or drop 1 deer 1 elk 3 rabbits and a Ram in a year. yadda yadda. Whatever...... I respect each and every person on this forum and find even the most inexperienced hunters can offer some really good information and valuable feedback about their circumstance, hunt, products they have used. Sorry if my opinion wasn't as good enough. no sweat off my back. I've moved on I just do my thing now. Nor was I trying to be anyone other than who I am. I don't have time for it.

Im a regular guy who works an office Job for 60 hours a week most of the time. I am raising 15 year old amazing daughter who kicks much butt at life, an awesome wife who lets me do whatever my passion is, and her 19 year old son. We work hard, all of us. We also like to play hard when we have the time.
I may not have all those animals down like a lot of guys out there do, but I still love to get out there when I can. Every year for the past 3 years I take 7-14 days off in September, and multiple weekends for scouting trips, to take a break from my busy work schedule so I can decompress and enjoy the outdoors and attempt to hunt Elk. I like to hook up with like minded non judgmental folks who are like me and aren't out there to prove something. I love learning about hunting, sharing my experiences and enjoy the chase I even enjoy the backpacking part of it which I've done more than hunting. /laugh
Since I can't be out there like most can be, I also love the gear. So instead of me dropping all of this money on a bunch of expensive gear, I set out a few years ago to get all I needed, to make myself comfortable out there by buying and selling it.
Most of the guys who have been on here for a while can tell you, I've bought and sold a lot of gear. I even have people give me crap, which I chuckle about, that, "I will only have it for a week or 2 so may as well sell it to them for cheap". I even have guys make betting jokes about how long I will have said piece of gear. All in good fun and I really don't mind. Anytime I can bring the store to my front door and not have to go somewhere to checkout something that may potentially be something I want. I buy it and try to resell it for a profit if I find it's not what I want. Yep I'm guilty of doing that. /Judge me. I like to say I have pumped thousands of dollars into the Rokslide economy by doing what I do. It's fun, I get to try out new gear, put hands on it, and sometimes abuse it, or just use it to resell to get something else. I'm a gypsy at heart. My Dad did it, My grandfather carved a life out of doing it, all the way till he was 80 years old. Besides, who doesn't enjoy coming home to packages waiting at the door.
With that said I am one of the new hunters who is learning his way. Giving it all the time I can afford to give it and working on getting better while I try out the gear. I don't think gear makes me any better at hunting nor do I feel it increases my chances at being successful. Mostly it's about comfort for me. Just like anyone if its lighter, warmer, stronger, more durable, and makes my life easier then I am down to check it out. Some of the stuff I buy I use and use regularly, while other things I pick up because it can help me get something even better. Yes that is what buying and selling is all about. I don't do this without giving back though. I have sold lots of gear at ridiculously low prices to folks. I bet most of the regulars have bought something from me or I have bought something off you. I wont even go into the other self promotional stuff Ive helped out with on Rokslide. So there you have it, Cards on the table. This is who I am, who I will continue to be. Nothing more nothing less.

I have met some amazing people on Rokslide, some of you I call friends and others we do alot of great deals with one another. I've gotten out with a few of you over the years of my experienced backpack attempted hunting career. Learned a lot about myself and others. I will continue doing what I do. If you like what I post, Great. If it works for you, even better. But you all are adults here and know what will work best for you. I can't tell you that nor can Aaron, Luke, Ryan or any of the other Elite Staff. So use your own judgment on the information you read online.
You hunters who can spend all that time in the field and put a dozen animals down a year kudos to you. Others strive to live up to this. I found out it isn't about that for me as I'm sure others have figured it out also. Anyone getting into hunting and backpacking or both will learn its a journey. You have to go through the bad to get to the good.
I'm not here to judge any of you on this forum, but I will tell you as a new person coming to Rokslide to learn and find out what it takes to get out there and have fun, threads like this are not going to encourage them to stick around. No one should be judged for voicing their opinion about anything and as Shrek stated it doesn't take 5 animals a year on the ground to know if a Backpack is going to carry a load well. I could say that about a bunch of gear I have given my opinion about. But I will spare you the analogies.

Full Circle to the original post about this topic Hoot said it best in my book. Stolen Valor is a completely punk move and when you equate it to the hunting taboos everyone speaks about in this thread it equates it to all those guys out there who are doing their best to carve out a living by doing what they love to do. Who are you to judge them? They can be as honest as they want or bullshit their way through it. Whatever it's up to us as adults to make that decision for ourselves.
I'm friends with some of those TV Personalities. Some of them are really great people who will do anything for anyone. Just because you don't enjoy their TV show, or you feel they promote products that suck doesn't make them bad people or equate them to someone that steals Valor. News flash those are sponsors and sometimes they can be hard to find. My opinion for what it's worth, which isn't much around here.

Now excuse me while I go finish my Feral hog tenderloin I shot 3 weeks ago. Yep thats right hog hunting is fun. You didnt see me posting that up on this board though. Didnt want you all thinking I was trying to promote something.



Yep Shot it with my crossbow and carted it back 2 miles in a game cart. That should give you all something to talk about.

 

[luke moffat]

Wow!! I am so sorry for ever agreeing with you guys as you took it all wrong. Anyways I am off to black bear hunt with my wife for our anniversary. For the record I don't expect to actually takebobe home but we will have a lovely time regardless which was my point. Feel free to continue to be offended when in fact I was simpu agreeing with you. I am out to spend some much needed time in the woods away from such drama. Take care guys and happy hunting!

 

[SHTF]

Wow!! I am so sorry for ever agreeing with you guys as you took it all wrong. Anyways I am off to black bear hunt with my wife for our anniversary. For the record I don't expect to actually takebobe home but we will have a lovely time regardless which was my point. Feel free to continue to be offended when in fact I was simpu agreeing with you. I am out to spend some much needed time in the woods away from such drama. Take care guys and happy hunting!

Not offended Luke guess you missed that first part of the post. =-) Just clearing the air for anyone who wants to know and posting my opinion. Enjoy your hunt hope you take one. Happy Anniversary also.