Stolen valor in hunting

[SHTF]

Suddenly I'm kinda glad my hunt reports often end without a trophy photo and just contain a descriptive story showing what an adventure it was and how close i came to sealing the deal only to be left eating elk tag soup (again). No valor there...just a good time.

I feel your pain Bruce them elk are smart animals and they are even smarter on public land.

 

[bearcreekbandit]

Maybe it is because "stolen valor" strikes a different cord with me, as a combat veteran, and I was already put off when I started reading the article...

But it sounds to me like you are really just upset with the commercialization of the hunting industry and how products are marketed/promoted. These are tactics used in virtually every market out there. I don't think it is fair to equate those take advantage of a market strategy to those who steal valor. I also find it ironic that Outdoor Life will benefit from that market strategy...

It's not really that I'm upset with the commercialization, my problem is with the commercialization that is based on false representation and outright lies. I don't like those tactics in any other market, but being somewhat involved in the outdoor industry, it's especially peeving.

It wasn't my intention, nor do i believe I mistakenly equated hunting with those who steal valor, i clearly stated that it wasn't the same thing, but was an analogy that fairly accurately illustrates what goes on in the hunting world as well. I apologize that you were off put by it, I discussed it quite a bit with several combat veterans I know, and none of them had any issues with the way it was used.

 

[Shrek]

Suddenly I'm kinda glad my hunt reports often end without a trophy photo and just contain a descriptive story showing what an adventure it was and how close i came to sealing the deal only to be left eating elk tag soup (again). No valor there...just a good time.

I hear you Bruce. I'm glad I don't take myself too seriously either. Go have a good time and share what you want to share and stop worrying what the Jones's are posting on Facebook. The only issue I have with the marketing end is the promotion of unrealistic standards. So many guys have been sucked into believing that the hunt wasn't successful if they didn't take three brazilion inch buck. I wish there was more marketing of the experience and less about the size of the antlers. It's a lot harder to capture an experience in a photo than a trophy.

 

[tipsntails7]

I hear you Bruce. I'm glad I don't take myself too seriously either. Go have a good time and share what you want to share and stop worrying what the Jones's are posting on Facebook. The only issue I have with the marketing end is the promotion of unrealistic standards. So many guys have been sucked into believing that the hunt wasn't successful if they didn't take three brazilion inch buck. I wish there was more marketing of the experience and less about the size of the antlers. It's a lot harder to capture an experience in a photo than a trophy.

Shrek I really agree with your statement. I also think that in certain places it has gotten a lot better. When sitka first came out with the short season films I was blown away. Those early videos really did a good job and made me feel like they understood one of my favourite things about hunting, the trip it took to get to that "trophy" ending its gotten even better with guys like Donnie Vincent, the guys from Montana wild are doing good things and meateater sheds a real look on why guys hunt at least in my opinion.

As far as the pro staff guys I don't listen to really any of them. Even if it is a great product it may not work for me and I'll think it's junk.

Peoples comments are a great starting point and can be valuable but I still have to use the damn thing and it might not work for me the way it does other guys.

 

[tipsntails7]

Suddenly I'm kinda glad my hunt reports often end without a trophy photo and just contain a descriptive story showing what an adventure it was and how close i came to sealing the deal only to be left eating elk tag soup (again). No valor there...just a good time.

Don't worry Bruce just keep at it. It took me 5 years to shoot an elk. The first 3 years all I saw were "Tipsntails" of elk. My first shot attempt I never even got the bow drawn. I was so close and he was so massive and loud I couldn't move..... The next year when I went to put my release on the string I hit the nock off, drew my bow and the arrow proceeded to fall In The dirt right in front of me as a good satellite bull watched me.

 

[OR Archer]

The article basically describes a couple people I see (but don't persoanlly know) on Facebook.

I get a little irritated at the "prostaff fakers" who often promote gear they haven't even used. Just saw a guy the other day on Facebook (I won't mention a name). He recently got the hook up with a boot company, bow company, and who knows what over company's. But he started saying how the bows are the best and the boots are the best he has ever used. Yet he has never used the boots yet and recently just got the bow. Before that he prompted other company's. Too me that just fake and deceiving to people who don't know better. Nothing wrong with promoting products. Atleast use them for a Season or a hunt before you say they are best. But it is what it is.
.

I think I know who you're referring to. I lost a bit of respect for that person. I by no means think they're a bad person. Just cut out the BS that's all.

 

[luke moffat]

As far as the pro staff guys I don't listen to really any of them.

Well remind me never to reply to you again

HAHA I get what you are saying 100%.

 

[charvey9]

I wish there was more marketing of the experience and less about the size of the antlers. It's a lot harder to capture an experience in a photo than a trophy.

Well said. Personally I get a little bored of only seeing the trophy photos. There are some great follows out there for hunting media like Sitka and Hilleberg. The photo thread on Rokslide has also been really good to with huge variety of subjects and some great photos. There is so much more of the experience to share.

 

[Archerm]

I have never done the facebook, twitter, social media thing and dont plan on it. I do enjoy reading and seeing photos of the everyday guys experiences on this, other western forums, as well as our local forums. I don't like the whole sales pitch thing with photos of a animal and products everywhere around the animal. This is one reason I don't watch many hunting and fishing shows on TV anymore, they are just one big sales pitch. There are a few shows I do like, the ones that are DIY shows with the commercials where they should be. I like to read the write up and see the photos of a trip from someone whether it is a first time hunter or a long time hunter who goes out and gets the job done or learns from his trip. Just because a newbie makes a post with pics and a good write up about a trip doesn't make it a bad thing because getting them back out doing what they like can be a good thing. I think we all can learn from these posts weather successful or not even those of use who have been doing it for 30+ years. For the first 15 years I hunted there really wasn't a internet and never really thought about taking pics of any kind. Now I like to take pics and share a few writeups now and then.

 

[dotman]

I prefer reading the humble no name guys hunting stories over the big name or look at me guys trying to make it big, I think forums are a good outlet to discuss things with like minded individuals no matter the experience. I think Social Media has been worse for hunting then the crappy ass TV shows from the sound of things. Really if we lost all the wanna be famous guys this entire article wouldn't of even been a consideration.

Way more to hunting and the outdoors then a dick measuring contest.

 

[TEmbry]

I have no problem with the article, although my personal thoughts are that reality isn't as bad as the article makes it out to be. People have always lied about hunting and boosted their own egos.... the internet just provides a bigger platform for people to do it from now.

Basically, I just really enjoy hunting. I don't care about people who fake it because life is too short to worry about such trivial things. Tools exist in all walks of life, including hunters.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Personally think the article is dumb, a waste of time.

Promote-- it's simple word with a simple definition. Wether it's as a person or a product someone feels as they are gaining something to promote. What is it they are actually gaining? does it really matter? Are they taking away from your personal hunting experience?

What some one does to promote doesn't bother me. If they want to take a picture with an over the limit number of ducks, so be it. If a promoter affects your experience in the woods, look in the mirror and think of whom you hunt for and why.

Stolen valor??? Really??? that's obviously beyond the authors comprehension if he is going to relate stolen valor to why people hunt and what the consider success. Very bad anology and distasteful at that. IMO

 

[TEmbry]

^ seems a bit extreme. It's hard to argue with the points of the article and the author wrote repeatedly how he in no way wanted to compare military service to hunting other than the meaning behind stolen valor is analogous to the scenario he describes (obviously without the significance of true stolen valor).

 

[realunlucky]

Title put me of also. Guess its different for everybody but I didn't agree with the comparison.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

I hear you Bruce. I'm glad I don't take myself too seriously either. Go have a good time and share what you want to share and stop worrying what the Jones's are posting on Facebook. The only issue I have with the marketing end is the promotion of unrealistic standards. So many guys have been sucked into believing that the hunt wasn't successful if they didn't take three brazilion inch buck. I wish there was more marketing of the experience and less about the size of the antlers. It's a lot harder to capture an experience in a photo than a trophy.

My Kaibab hunt last season was my best hunting experience yet...tag soup didn't matter at all. Got drawn for the Kaibab again this year...can't wait! (Not bad for a non-resident). When I post my hunt reports (like http://www.rokslide.com/forums/showthread.php?22570-Kaibab-Elk-Hunt&highlight=hunt) my only goal is to share the experience and at the same time, record the hunt while it's fresh in my head so I can relive it later. My memory gets fuzzy sometimes. Lord knows we all have days when the only thing we can do is live vicariously through the stories of others. I read em all. Lotsa good intel to be had reading real life hunting stories. As for valor well...that's something reserved for guys running towards gunfire IMHO.

 

[Jon Boy]

I think I know who you're referring to. I lost a bit of respect for that person. I by no means think they're a bad person. Just cut out the BS that's all.

I know who you guys are talking about too. Very annoying.

 

[4IDARCHER]

I was the first to respond to this topic from the OP. I read the article and I took no offense by it. I have 16 years in the military both guard and active and am active again. It is my hope to retire in another 7 years active duty and continue on in the field I am currently in and love. I am blessed to be active duty and have my dream position.
To me the OP isn't degrading any military service or honor. He is simply comparing something that is going on in the hunting circles to something we as a nation/culture have given a name to. When someone is dressing in military gear they didn't earn or wearing honors that were not bought with courage and actions then "we" have decided to call it stolen valor. It is a name posted everywhere from social media sites to the Army Times. I find no offense in this from the OP.

Then again I really am not offended, at least not to the hatred level, by the actual actions of those committing the crimes and being stupid. Here is why.

I feel no need to compete with any other man or woman in bragging up either my current position or mission or those I have done in the past. I am extremely proud of what I have done, but I carry that pride on the inside and am content with the knowledge that it has made me a better man, and I am confident that it has led me to the level of success I feel I have in my everyday life. That to me is my reward and no one can "steal" that from me. When someone dresses or acts in a false way regarding their military career, or lack of, then I feel pity in a way for them. They were not man enough (couldn't think of a better term and mean no offense to any female service member) to actually do what they wish they were man enough to do, and yet feel so strongly about it that they must try to show to others and have them believe they are something they are not. They clearly do not have the level of self worth and confidence that actual military service and more specific actual war time experience leads to. While they are acting stupid and committing a crime I do not hate them for their inadequacies, just shake my head at the realization they will never have what they reach for.

God willing after I retire I will have another 15years of hard bow hunting in me, and at least 35 years on Earth. My life will be filled with family and great times getting my children and someday grandchildren into hunting (If I can retire at 45ish I will still have a 10 and 12 year old just learning to hunt). I plan to have a whole new career after military service and while I will always be proud of my service I never want it to become a more important to me then the other aspects of my life like being a great father, husband and hopefully a decent Christian man. I think the military honed me in part to be the person I am today, but after I get out I do not want to sit around all the time and think about my life 15-20 years ago (any more then any other old man does). I am hoping my life at that time will be as rewarding and joyful as my life now and I will be too busy living it then worrying about what some knucklehead is trying to pass off for their dream of a life that they will never have.

I wrote that whole long speel out to show that I am not offended by the OP or thread and believe that there is a point to what the article and OP are saying. I do think there is too much of a push to show who you are sponsored by and what gear made your hunt, especially if a year ago you were in print or on the internet bragging up one of the competitors equipment. At least have the guts to say you are wearing KUIU/Sitka/First Lite/Kryptek/Who-Ever because they are giving you the best deal and all the gear out there is very good now-a-days. To me it is pretty distasteful when someone overly pushes their current brand that will change in a year or two just as it has in the past, and saying with a straight face that the gear they are using now is the best gear out there, never mentioning that this gear was on the market a few years back when they were all about the competitors gear and how it was the greatest. In the same breath they loudly exclaim how they are all DIY and back country and look down on someone that uses an outfitter or buys a governor's tag.

Making a living pushing gear is fine by me, but one has to stay grounded when they do it. That to me was the whole point of the OP's thread and the issue going on that many of us see in some of the hunting circles. Staying grounded and realizing what really makes the hunt special.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

Good article that expresses why I no longer read most hunting magazines and watch very few shows.

I've seen a few fakers on here but they usually get chewed up pretty quick and leave. For the most part folks on here seem pretty genuine. As far as only seeing trophy stories posted as success, personally I found shrek's trials last season or PA-50's sheep hunt that went so south that he doesn't even want to talk about it just as valuable as Ryan's shiras hunt or Luke and Becca's mountain goat hunts. You don't develop realistic expectations reading magazines or watching TV because of false representation. Prostaff and sponsorship just mean you look like you can sell a product, not that you should sell it.

 

[Jason Snyder]

False personas are nothing new. Anyone remember Kurt Darner?

 

[TWP]

I don't care at all about what folks say you need to have or one upsmanship, be an official member of Team Badass Bucks Militia Swat Swarm, it is all gravy to me. The hunt and pursuit aren't about you or you or him or her, it is about me and my time here on Earth for a little while. Heck I know it is hard to draw tags and point creep and etc, BUT it is not that hard to find a place to hunt and spend time in His creation. We want big antlers/horns because of the challenge and a shit ton of vanity, don't lie now. But maybe that need for challenge and vanity is the reason for us posting on these platforms???? Human nature I suppose, from the very beginning of us making jewelry of shells and bones, we as a species feels a need to show off and be different. Good bad or ugly, it is how we are hard wired. No sense in fighting it.

The MAIN problem I have with the commercialization of this need to show is that I just had a conversation last week with a brand new archer at the range, and all he could talk about was the amount of gear he needed and how much it was going to cost him to buy it all. He needed Swaro, Kifaru, KUIU, etc before he felt that he could go hunting. THAT is what I am afraid of. I don't give a damn what your Instagram feed says, you don't NEED very much to hunt, and what you need more than anything is time in the field. This guy was going to put off hunting for a year so he could accumulate all of the gear!!!!!!!! To each their own, but we talked for a while and he is set up to hunt in 2015. I just wish we could find a little middle ground.