Soto Windmaster vs BRS 3000T and Heat exchanger vs regular pot.

[Marbles]

Gotta chop those BRS legs down so the burner sits just up under the bottom of the pot.

I don't think it can be made comparable to the Windmaster, in part because it is the Windmaster's wind shield and not the burner that makes it sit fully inside the heat exchanger.



I think the BRS would work better cutting down the pot supports, but I'll have to think on it before possibly destroying it.

A small windshield around the BRS burner is more interesting to me at the moment.

 

[BBob]

I don't think it can be made comparable to the Windmaster, in part because it is the Windmaster's wind shield and not the burner that makes it sit fully inside the heat exchanger.

Doesn't have to go as high as the WM. If chopped like in the photo the burner head sits just above the bottom of the pot and just out of direct wind. May not be as perfect as the WM in a heavy wind but definitely better than stock. They are cheap enough so who cares if you F one up? Get another one

 

[Marbles]

@Marbles
I only briefly glanced over, but I didn’t see a test with the BRS nested inside the Fire Maple with no wind. That is how I use mine, as I never try and use a stove in the wind, no matter which one I’m using. It’s always in my vestibule.

As I expected, in no wind conditions the BRS was more efficient. The Fire Maple pot doesn't appear to add much to the Windmasters efficiency in no wind.

BRS with Fire Maple, no wind
Start temp 68.9 F
Start weight 233~ g
Time 2:36
End weight 231~ g. = 2 g

Soto with Fire Maple, no wind
Start temp 61.7 F
Start weight 271~ g
Time 1:39
End weight 266~ g. = 5 g

Soto with Fire Maple, no wind, lower heat trying to be more efficient.
Start temp F
Start weight 266~ g
Time 3:02
End weight 262~ g. = 4 g

 

[HuntHarder]

Of all the things I try and cut weight on, I never skimp on stove fuel. I will gladly carry a larger or extra can of fuel vs. cutting it close on fuel.

I've never done a test like this, pretty informative with how you did it. Thanks

 

[Marbles]

For light weight, if counting on shielding wind, the Toaks 650 ml and BRS come out ahead.

I'm going to over complicate things for thought experiment purposes. I don't want to think about changing out gear all the time.

Also, note the math is not linear for adding volume (should be more efficient per ounce of water as you boil more at once). This is a thought experiment for illustration purposes, it would take more testing to get operable conclusions.

A small isobutane canister holds 110 g, meaning the BRS gives 36~ 8 oz boils with the Toaks, 55~ 8 oz boils with the Fire Maple. Given the lack of a regulator, probably closer to 30/50.

If one needs 32 oz boiled per day, the Toaks wins going for a 7 day trip.

The Fire Maple could get 12 days.

If you figure 3 days fuel reserve to allow for wind, temp, Etc, then 4 day or shorter trips the Toaks wins.

4-9 days the Fire Maple and small canister wins.


227 g in a large canister.
-BRS + Fire Maple = 26 days
-BRS + Toaks = 17 days

So, still giving 3 days reserve the Toaks wins for 10-14 day trips and the Fire Maple for 15-23 day trips.

You figure 5 g per 8 oz boil with the Soto, irrespective of pot.
Small canister = 22, so 5 days if needing 32 oz per day.
Large canister = 45, so 11 days.

Now, add wind and the Fire Maple and Soto Windmaster becomes more efficient.

 

[Marbles]

For anyone interested in a further comparison.

Pot size.


Stove size


Example 1-3 day UL kit.


And weight less canister.


My typical kit


And weight less canister


The small canister fits in each pot. The Windmaster will fit in the Toaks with the canister.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

@Marbles Well I know which one you're bringing on the Death Hike next week.

 

[Marty]

@Marbles Well I know which one you're bringing on the Death Hike next week.

The lightest weight gear you can use is the stuff you buddy carries... lol

 

[Marbles]

@Marbles Well I know which one you're bringing on the Death Hike next week.

Yep, which is also what got me thinking about this.

 

[skipper907]

@Marbles Well I know which one you're bringing on the Death Hike next week.

death hike ?

 

[Hatchet]

death hike ?

I was wondering the same thing

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

death hike ?

I was wondering the same thing

2 day, 50 mile, 25,000 vert hike that @Marbles,
@Marty, @brolo and I are doing in the Chugach in a couple weekends.

 

[skipper907]

2 day, 50 mile, 25,000 vert hike that @Marbles,
@Marty, @brolo and I are doing in the Chugach in a couple weekends.

I have something similar planned just need to make to the time to do it. Was going to do 24hrs so it was a little easier to fit in the bust alaska summer

 

[35WhelenAI]

As I expected, in no wind conditions the BRS was more efficient. The Fire Maple pot doesn't appear to add much to the Windmasters efficiency in no wind.

BRS with Fire Maple, no wind
Start temp 68.9 F
Start weight 233~ g
Time 2:36
End weight 231~ g. = 2 g

Soto with Fire Maple, no wind
Start temp 61.7 F
Start weight 271~ g
Time 1:39
End weight 266~ g. = 5 g

Soto with Fire Maple, no wind, lower heat trying to be more efficient.
Start temp F
Start weight 266~ g
Time 3:02
End weight 262~ g. = 4 g

Great work, I realize I'm a bit late to the party on this thread by a month. There's not mention of which Fire Maple pot you used. I gather it's a G3 based on pics.

I ran an almost identical experiment last week and posted (#455) in the "UL fuel efficient cook system" thread. Soto Windmaster vs BRS3000T, pots were Fire Maple Ramen pot and G2 pot.

I noticed in the info quoted above, the BRS stove burned for 2 minutes and 36 seconds and use 2g of fuel. Is 2g a mis-type? Seems more than a bit low on fuel usage for that long of a burn. Not a bad thing but want to verify.

 

[Marbles]

Great work, I realize I'm a bit late to the party on this thread by a month. There's not mention of which Fire Maple pot you used. I gather it's a G3 based on pics.

I ran an almost identical experiment last week and posted (#455) in the "UL fuel efficient cook system" thread. Soto Windmaster vs BRS3000T, pots were Fire Maple Ramen pot and G2 pot.

I noticed in the info quoted above, the BRS stove burned for 2 minutes and 36 seconds and use 2g of fuel. Is 2g a mis-type? Seems more than a bit low on fuel usage for that long of a burn. Not a bad thing but want to verify.

It is not a mistype. Two things probably came into play.
-First, I have never liked running my stoves on high, or having flames extend past the bottom of the pot; so the BRS was probably running close to max efficiency (my guess) in the lower end of its range.
- Second, I was using a kitchen scale that measured to 1g, while each measurement was a mean of multiple, accuracy is still +/- 0.5g. Thus if error was maximal the measurement calculated consumption could be off by close to a gram.

 

[35WhelenAI]

I'll run the BRS with the G2 and the Ramen pot, at the lower end of the range and add data to the pool.

 

[Marbles]

And yes, it is the G3 pot. I don't think the G2 was around when I bought it, but now I want a G2. I have a problem.

Edited the first post as well.

 

[35WhelenAI]

I'll say going into this post, finding the point both stoves (Soto, BRS) are similar in power output in the lower range is dang difficult.

-If you know, you know. With respect to the sound each stove puts out. Nothing comparable that's useful in finding similar output.

-Watching approximate flame distribution under each pot was a total crap shoot as well in finding a close to common power level due to extreme differences in burner head size.

-BRS had a very fine line of transition between lower power and higher power. At the point I was trying to fine-tune power output to dial in similar boil times between those two stoves, a slight move toward closed took the power way down, slight move toward open significantly increased output with no middle ground. This made it difficult to match output between the stoves.

-Soto is a rheostat, it's consistent with a range of controllable power from high to low and anywhere in between.

In any case, results were fairly consistent with what myself and others have been seeing.
-FM G3/BRS work really well together. 3.59g fuel at an attempted lower output to boil 16 oz @4:24 min.
-FM G3/Soto 4.6 g fuel to boil 16 oz @3:29 min at what I had hoped was a similar lower output.

Same observation as the other thread. BRS seats nicely up under the G3. Soto 4 Flex has the pot fully supported under the G3 heat exchanger instead of being nestled into it. Ordered a triflex support, hasn't arrived. Will add more testing when that arrives.

The FM Ramen pot and Soto 4 Flex work well together, and the BRS did well also IMO.
-Throttled back as best as the BRS is capable in my hands, @5:20 min and 4.49g fuel for 16 oz boil.
-Soto 4 Flex @3:09 and same 4.49g for 16 oz boil. The big difference in times was because the BRS would go much more wide open with a small adjustment or it would go way down with a small adjustment. I kept it on the low side of things instead of blasting.

IMO, the BRS does better with a taller narrow pot (G3 in my case, G2 as shown earlier in this thread by the OP) because of the extremely small burner head size. A lot of heat can be focused on a small area to carry up through the column of water in the pot.

The Soto and BRS with a wider Ramen pot are similarly efficient, but Soto does it in way less time when less than full power for both stoves.

Not sure if this is relevant, however the concentrated heat Source from a BRS could take a toll on pots over the long haul versus a more evenly distributed flame from a larger burner head.

In the overall picture, all of the stoves will do better or not as good in one situation or another, there's no cake and eating it too.

At this point I would not hesitate to take a BRS into the field, it's definitely a player like others have been saying for solo work and it took a while for me to come around. If I was cooking for more than myself and a larger pot made sense vs doing multiple boils, the Soto would take the win every time because of its stability versus the very narrow pot support on the BRS.