Soooo I’m thinking about .243- few questions

[mtwarden]

bummer the tikka wasn't in 1:8. i picked up one this weekend that was shipped out from distribution in april 2023...., 1:8
View attachment 654133

now it just needs to lose a few inches, get threaded, and live in a rokstock and then maybe someone will show me the secret handshake.

the dealer said they hadn't changed the actual part number, although I see the distinct "/8" on your label- mine didn't have that

What twist is the kimber?

1:10 I think I should be fine w/ 95 grain Accubonds, probably won't go any heavier though

No fist bump for you.

I figured so

 

[Evlshnngns]

I bought a new 20" r700 243w 8 twist two weeks ago at sportsmans. It came with a compact stock with spacers. I swapped a nice adl varmint stock on it, definitely free floated now. I've only put 15 rounds through it, seems to shoot well with 100gr hornady spbt and a mild charge of powder.

You will certainly enjoy your new 243. Let us know how it shoots.

 

[OldGrayWolf]

mtwarden, velocity is not all there is to that short a barrel in the .243. A barrel that short can have a bark, too. Having shot a compact .243 with a 20” barrel for a bit, if I had one less than 22” it would be suppressed. YMMV.

 

[mtwarden]

I've just found my 19" .308 to be such a joy to carry (both in hand and on a pack) that I think the juice is worth the squeeze- for me anyways

I see the advantages of running a can, but I think I'm too much of weight weanie to ever run one- but one never knows

 

[brhillman]

I've been slowly trying to catch up on the .223, 6mm/.243, etc threads and the maximizing-smaller-caliber-terminal-performance trend here, and the mountain of evidence there has me too going through this same "downsizing" process, converting from .308 to .243 for my primary hunting rifle (.243 min for big game in Washington). I've been going around and around about bullet selection (will handload for this), looking at both external and terminal ballistics. The aforementioned threads suggest that at the lower end of the caliber range, we want to optimize for maximum tissue damage, which I think points to more frangible cup and core type bullets being most appropriate for deer and elk-sized game (of which I think we'd consider tipped match bullets a subset of). I compiled some ballistics to help organize my thinking on this, and was somewhat surprised at some of the offerings. The following table is compiled from data produced using shooterscalculator online, assuming a conservative MV of 2900 for all projectiles between 90gr and 100gr (note that factory loads with 90-100gr projectiles almost all exceed this and obviously you can push the lighter ones upwards of 3100 FPS, so this is just a baseline point of comparison, and may be less useful for you, but my priorities are achieving the needed terminal velocity for expansion while minimizing recoil to allow more easily spotting impacts), sea level conditions, and a 10 MPH crosswind:

Projectile	BC	Speed @ 500 yd	Drift @ 500 yd
90gr ELD-x	0.409	1874	22.39
90gr TGK	0.4	1854	23
95gr NBT	0.379	1804	24.6
95gr TMK	0.49	2026	18
100gr SGK	0.409	1874	22.39
100gr BTSP	0.405	1865	22.66

I'm showing speed and wind drift at 500 yds because I *aspire* to be 500 yd capable. I've only included the projectiles that I'm pretty sure will stabilize in my factory Rem twist barrel (would love to be able to include the 108 ELD-M here but fat chance). Some things that stood out to me about this. Even with the conservative MV, all of these maintain that minimum 1800 FPS impact speed at 500 yds. The TMK, with the highest BC by a long shot, obviously has significantly less wind drift downrange, and seems like the obvious choice both from a wound channel and external ballistics perspective (see the .223 thread for the devastation caused with the 77gr TMK), but I haven't been able to find them anywhere. The 95gr NBT gets recommended a lot, but with the caveat that the BC leaves a lot to be desired, but running the numbers even with a really conservative 2900 FPS MV this only results in at most about 2" more wind drift at 500 yards compared with all the options *except* the TMK, which is unobtainium. I was also really surprised to see the soft point projectiles have BCs over 0.4, while everyone seems to assume that those ugly exposed lead tips ought to just tank BC. That actually leads me to some questions: we all seem to regard the tipped match-type bullets over the old fashioned soft points, but I have not really seen a good evidence-based argument for that other than BC, which based on factory published numbers are actually comparable to some of the tipped offerings. How does terminal performance compare between, e.g., the 100gr SGK or 100gr Interlock BTSP against the ELD-X, NBT, TMK, etc? What about BC *variance*? It's commonly assumed that dented points will just tank BC, but you know what they say about assuming.

 

[Formidilosus]

I've been slowly trying to catch up on the .223, 6mm/.243, etc threads and the maximizing-smaller-caliber-terminal-performance trend here, and the mountain of evidence there has me too going through this same "downsizing" process, converting from .308 to .243 for my primary hunting rifle (.243 min for big game in Washington). I've been going around and around about bullet selection (will handload for this), looking at both external and terminal ballistics. The aforementioned threads suggest that at the lower end of the caliber range, we want to optimize for maximum tissue damage, which I think points to more frangible cup and core type bullets being most appropriate for deer and elk-sized game (of which I think we'd consider tipped match bullets a subset of). I compiled some ballistics to help organize my thinking on this, and was somewhat surprised at some of the offerings. The following table is compiled from data produced using shooterscalculator online, assuming a conservative MV of 2900 for all projectiles between 90gr and 100gr (note that factory loads with 90-100gr projectiles almost all exceed this and obviously you can push the lighter ones upwards of 3100 FPS, so this is just a baseline point of comparison, and may be less useful for you, but my priorities are achieving the needed terminal velocity for expansion while minimizing recoil to allow more easily spotting impacts), sea level conditions, and a 10 MPH crosswind:

Projectile	BC	Speed @ 500 yd	Drift @ 500 yd
90gr ELD-x	0.409	1874	22.39
90gr TGK	0.4	1854	23
95gr NBT	0.379	1804	24.6
95gr TMK	0.49	2026	18
100gr SGK	0.409	1874	22.39
100gr BTSP	0.405	1865	22.66

I'm showing speed and wind drift at 500 yds because I *aspire* to be 500 yd capable. I've only included the projectiles that I'm pretty sure will stabilize in my factory Rem twist barrel (would love to be able to include the 108 ELD-M here but fat chance). Some things that stood out to me about this. Even with the conservative MV, all of these maintain that minimum 1800 FPS impact speed at 500 yds. The TMK, with the highest BC by a long shot, obviously has significantly less wind drift downrange, and seems like the obvious choice both from a wound channel and external ballistics perspective (see the .223 thread for the devastation caused with the 77gr TMK), but I haven't been able to find them anywhere. The 95gr NBT gets recommended a lot, but with the caveat that the BC leaves a lot to be desired, but running the numbers even with a really conservative 2900 FPS MV this only results in at most about 2" more wind drift at 500 yards compared with all the options *except* the TMK, which is unobtainium. I was also really surprised to see the soft point projectiles have BCs over 0.4, while everyone seems to assume that those ugly exposed lead tips ought to just tank BC. That actually leads me to some questions: we all seem to regard the tipped match-type bullets over the old fashioned soft points, but I have not really seen a good evidence-based argument for that other than BC, which based on factory published numbers are actually comparable to some of the tipped offerings. How does terminal performance compare between, e.g., the 100gr SGK or 100gr Interlock BTSP against the ELD-X, NBT, TMK, etc? What about BC *variance*? It's commonly assumed that dented points will just tank BC, but you know what they say about assuming.

You’re looking at bullet with parachutes attached to them. The BC’s of those bullets except for the TMK is the same, or less BC than 77gr TMK’s. Factory Remington barrels will stabilize Hornady 105gr HPBT’s, or at least all that I have seen stabilize them fine. You might find that your barrel will stabilize the 103gr ELD-X as well.

 

[brhillman]

You’re looking at bullet with parachutes attached to them. The BC’s of those bullets except for the TMK is the same, or less BC than 77gr TMK’s. Factory Remington barrels will stabilize Hornady 105gr HPBT’s, or at least all that I have seen stabilize them fine. You might find that your barrel will stabilize the 103gr ELD-X as well.

Right, I was surprised to see BCs of, e.g., the soft points comparable to the tipped bullets of similar weights, which got me wondering which was more consistent in terms of performance in tissue since the BC argument seems irrelevant in this case. I was hoping to try the 103 ELD-X as well in hopes it will stabilize, but I’m surprised to hear the recommendation to try the HPBT. From my reading (and no first hand experience with them), the hollow tipped projectiles seem a little less consistent in terms of terminal performance (relying on turning or tumbling in tissue to come apart). Really, I am most interested in the 95 TMK if Sierra ever starts selling them again.

 

[Formidilosus]

Right, I was surprised to see BCs of, e.g., the soft points comparable to the tipped bullets of similar weights,

It’s just that all of those tipped bullet are designed around old, slow twist, poorly chambered rifles- the tipped bullets are artificially lower in BC than they could be. 95gr 6mm bullets should be close to .5 BC.

which got me wondering which was more consistent in terms of performance in tissue since the BC argument seems irrelevant in this case.

No. The best killing bullets are 95gr NBT, ELD-M and X’s, and Bergers.

I was hoping to try the 103 ELD-X as well in hopes it will stabilize, but I’m surprised to hear the recommendation to try the HPBT. From my reading (and no first hand experience with them), the hollow tipped projectiles seem a little less consistent in terms of terminal performance (relying on turning or tumbling in tissue to come apart). Really, I am most interested in the 95 TMK if Sierra ever starts selling them again.

The Hornady 105gr HPBT is a good killer. Penetration is a bit deeper than tipped match bullets, but wounds are good.


105gr HPBT from factory M7 barrel-

 

[Outcast]

What’s the minimum velocity for the 95gr ballistic tip and consistent upset? I use a lot of them but haven’t stretched it out on animals with it as of yet.

 

[WormSportsman]

Curious on this as well as I actually found some locally the other day so picked up some to reload finally!

 

[sveltri]

I found some at Walmart of all places

 

[brhillman]

No. The best killing bullets are 95gr NBT, ELD-M and X’s, and Bergers.

Perfect, this answers my question, thank you. Although the NBT looks like it has the biggest parachute attached to it out of all of them.

Good to know about the HPBT, I’ll add that for consideration/testing. The BC is certainly more attractive.

 

[Formidilosus]

What’s the minimum velocity for the 95gr ballistic tip and consistent upset? I use a lot of them but haven’t stretched it out on animals with it as of yet.

1,800fps +/-

 

[Formidilosus]

Perfect, this answers my question, thank you. Although the NBT looks like it has the biggest parachute attached to it out of all of them.

It does. However it is a very balanced bullet terminally.

 

[Steve300xcw]

The Hornady 105gr HPBT is a good killer. Penetration is a bit deeper than tipped match bullets, but wounds are good.

Thats all I shoot, mainly because I'm cheap. They do work well though.

Would you be comfy hittin something under 2k fps with them?

 

[Formidilosus]

Thats all I shoot, mainly because I'm cheap. They do work well though.

Would you be comfy hittin something under 2k fps with them?

It’s been a few years since I’ve used them, but I saw no issues when I did. 2,000fps is probably a safe bet, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they constantly work lower.

 

[Towhee]

I really liked my .243. Just feels classic! The cartridge definitely ain't going nowhere.

I'd shoot just about anything in NA with .243 95 NBT's and feel confident. Someone in a post called them the "purple meanies" and I'd have to agree. Wouldn't be concerned about taking elk, within a reasonable distance. I believe my rifle was a 1:10 or 1:9.25 twist.

 

[Outcast]

1,800fps +/-

That gets me out to 600 yards given the elevation I'm at! Thanks

 

[mtwarden]

a little late Christmas present

pretty svelte right out of the box

 

[mtwarden]

I've got four boxes of the 95 gr Accubonds, four boxes of the 95 gr NBT's (Winchester loaded) and four boxes of 100 gr Partitions—hopefully one of those will work out

Had my gunsmith cut (and crown) 3" from the barrel- dropped 3 oz- an oz/inch.

This is what's going on top- 3-9x40 Accupoint (Game Reaper mounts)