Son's first rifle

[Esq]

Burnt Reynolds. I'm in Silverton as well and have 6-boys so I've been in your shoes. If you want to have him test shoot a few rifles, we've got a few you could have him try out on the range to see what you think. Sako Finnlight in 6.5 creed, Kimber 8400 in .243. Not looking to sell, just give you something to try.

 

[Burnt Reynolds]

It's been stated elsewhere, but I'll say it again here... I firmly believe that .243 is the absolute upper end of what I'd have a kid shoot a lot of.

Lots of guys view 6.5cm, 7-08, etc as good "kid guns" but anything with 40+ grains of powder behind a 140 grain bullet is producing more recoil than a kid ought to be trying to develop good habits with. I had a similar view, started my oldest with 7mm-08 at 10 with 120gr bullets and it was a mistake. He's a lot better rifleman now, and switching to .223 for him was a big part of that. A .243 pushes a 100lb kid around like a .30-06 pushes a 200lb guy, and a 6.5CM or 7mm-08 (15 ft lb recoil energy) hits them like an 8lb .300WM hits a 200 lb guy. People really underestimate how much of an effect recoil has on kids.

Every single person I know of who recommends 6.5CM/7mm-08 for preteen kids has either not taught nor than 2-3 kids to shoot seriously, or has not seen heavy tipped .22 and 6mm bullets on game. Every single person who has done both of those things is 100% 6mm and under for kids (and often for themselves)

I read that entire other thread that was linked above and there was a lot of great information. That said, if it weren't for legal elk hunting caliber requirements in Oregon I wouldn't even bother with a new rifle for him as my RAR is setup perfect for him and he loves shooting it, is accurate and all the other important factors are in place.

There will be some weight added (Atlas bipod) and eventually a dedicated can.

I'm going to go the route of a stainless Tikka 8twist 243 and find a compact stock for it. Credo 3-9x, bipod and sling. All things considered this checks all my boxes.

I've got quite a few elk & deer points burning a hole in my pocket and am thinking when he's 11 we should be able to get ourselves into a good unit and he can hopefully fill my tag via Oregon youth mentored hunt program.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

It's been stated elsewhere, but I'll say it again here... I firmly believe that .243 is the absolute upper end of what I'd have a kid shoot a lot of.

Lots of guys view 6.5cm, 7-08, etc as good "kid guns" but anything with 40+ grains of powder behind a 140 grain bullet is producing more recoil than a kid ought to be trying to develop good habits with. I had a similar view, started my oldest with 7mm-08 at 10 with 120gr bullets and it was a mistake. He's a lot better rifleman now, and switching to .223 for him was a big part of that. A .243 pushes a 100lb kid around like a .30-06 pushes a 200lb guy, and a 6.5CM or 7mm-08 (15 ft lb recoil energy) hits them like an 8lb .300WM hits a 200 lb guy. People really underestimate how much of an effect recoil has on kids.

Every single person I know of who recommends 6.5CM/7mm-08 for preteen kids has either not taught nor than 2-3 kids to shoot seriously, or has not seen heavy tipped .22 and 6mm bullets on game. Every single person who has done both of those things is 100% 6mm and under for kids (and often for themselves)

Hands down I've had the kids shoot the 243win over the 7-08. I actually pulled the barrel off the 7-08 for now and put a shorter 284win on there for myself to use suppressed. My older son just shot a deer with the 284win because I also had an elk tag so that was the gun I wanted to carry. But he's also now much bigger at 14 than he was at 12 and under. He did use the 243win this year for pronghorn.

 

[Esq]

One more things. When my first son was 10 I just had him shoot a 270 because he was already 170 lbs and has always been nearly immune to recoil. More so than just about anybody I've seen. But with son No. 2, he was a smaller kid, about average size and not immune to recoil. I made the mistake of buying a Daniel Defense AR platform in 300 blk for our local deer thinking that the length of pull is adjustable on the AR and that being a semi auto, that would take up some recoil and the 300 blk doesn't recoil much anyway. The problem was that the gun scoped weighs about 10 lbs. Too much for a normal 10-year old. We never took it into the woods.

 

[Cannonball]

I got matching T3x compact .223 and 6.5cm with Trijicon Hurons. I figured they could shoot the .223 and then the 6.5cm would feel right at home. Ill get around to threading them at some point.

The Bergara stoke looks pretty good since it is factory threaded and cerakoted.

This one also looks pretty nice but I believe the Vanguard is Howa made?

WBY VANGUARD COMPACT HUNTER 243WIN 22

dahlonegaarmory.com

 

[Chris_in_Idaho]

I'm going to go the route of a stainless Tikka 8twist 243 and find a compact stock for it.

I opened this thread to recommend exactly this. Nicely done.

 

[mtnbound]

I don't reload. I have the ambition, and the plan is once our house is finished being built and we're out of the trailer I'll have safe/secure space to set up. Right now our shop is our main living space and not conducive to the activity.

To your point of choosing a caliber first, I started out looking at 6.5cm options then accepted that anything in that caliber range can accomplish my objectives while delivering pros/cons related to his shooting development. After which my search became finding the most gun for the money.

That said, I like the idea of a fast twist 243. Just a smidge more recoil than my 223's and he can have it forever...then in several years when he's done growing will be able to safely shoot my rifles if we feel more cartridge is necessary.

When I was 12 I was upgraded from a BB gun to a Remington pump '06. My dad: "here, be careful, now let's sit on this stump for 10 hours and wait for a buck". LOL. I couldn't sit still for 5 minutes and that gun would rattle my brain. I killed many deer with it. Nowadays I prefer to be on the move and so does jr. If we stop for more than a minute and aren't glassing he's suddenly digging a hole or looking for awesome sticks or something.

I agree with the 243 that’s was my first gun and I would have recommended but factory affordable practice ammo is not as common in 243 in my area as is 6.5CM. Sounds like you have a good plan.

 

[Gila]

It's been stated elsewhere, but I'll say it again here... I firmly believe that .243 is the absolute upper end of what I'd have a kid shoot a lot of.

Lots of guys view 6.5cm, 7-08, etc as good "kid guns" but anything with 40+ grains of powder behind a 140 grain bullet is producing more recoil than a kid ought to be trying to develop good habits with. I had a similar view, started my oldest with 7mm-08 at 10 with 120gr bullets and it was a mistake. He's a lot better rifleman now, and switching to .223 for him was a big part of that. A .243 pushes a 100lb kid around like a .30-06 pushes a 200lb guy, and a 6.5CM or 7mm-08 (15 ft lb recoil energy) hits them like an 8lb .300WM hits a 200 lb guy. People really underestimate how much of an effect recoil has on kids.

Every single person I know of who recommends 6.5CM/7mm-08 for preteen kids has either not taught nor than 2-3 kids to shoot seriously, or has not seen heavy tipped .22 and 6mm bullets on game. Every single person who has done both of those things is 100% 6mm and under for kids (and often for themselves)

The difference in recoil between a .243 and a 6.5 Creed is only about 3 ft/lbs. Start off with light loads and the difference is less than that. Put on the right recoil pad and I doubt he would notice. A 20 gauge turkey load with a tight choke is a lot more than that…

 

[270quest]

My vote would be a tikka stainless in 6.5 creed or 8 twist .243, replace the stock with the youth version.

 

[Pharmseller]

I’ll keep an eye out for a compact stock for you.

Proper fit is crucial.




P

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

The difference in recoil between a .243 and a 6.5 Creed is only about 3 ft/lbs. Start off with light loads and the difference is less than that. Put on the right recoil pad and I doubt he would notice. A 20 gauge turkey load with a tight choke is a lot more than that…

3lb is probably a 30-40% increase though.

I wouldn't want to shoot a ton of 20ga turkey loads at the range, can't image the kids would either...

 

[tikkashooter88]

If you take up @Pharmseller on his offer to shoot at ARPC I could try and meet up as well to have him shoot the Tikka 6.5 Creedmoor compact I put together for wife and kids. Had the barrel cut to 18in and threaded. Have a 7in can on it. Overall length is less than a regular 24in rifle.

 

[Burnt Reynolds]

3lb is probably a 30-40% increase though.

I wouldn't want to shoot a ton of 20ga turkey loads at the range, can't image the kids would either...

Yeah jr was only good for a few when we were zeroing the rds. Otherwise it’s like #8’s or whatever I can get flats for that’s cheap. He shoots a lot of starlings in our vineyard so I am about ready to start buying him ammo by the pallet

 

[Burnt Reynolds]

I’ll keep an eye out for a compact stock for you.

Proper fit is crucial.




P

Thanks man!

 

[SloppyJ]

Man this is tough. Is the 223 illegal in your state for elk? Not sure that's been answered, only assumed. I was going down the 243 path as well and I'm glad i didn't.

I can't imagine a better fit for my son than the chopped down and suppressed 16" Tikka compact he has now. It's a perfect fit but he's only 7.

 

[tikkashooter88]

Man this is tough. Is the 223 illegal in your state for elk? Not sure that's been answered, only assumed.

Yes it is illegal in OR.

 

[SloppyJ]

Yes it is illegal in OR.
View attachment 794718

Well get the 243 8 twist compact and see if he can grow into it a bit.

 

[oregonoutdoors]

I couldn't find a compact tikka stock after some looking / waiting so i just chopped a factory tikka stock for my kids. You can find tikka takeoff stocks for less than $50 all the time. My son learned how to shoot on a supressed tikka 223 and hunts with a browning compact 308 with a brake. My daughter will be 11 next year and will start hunting with the tikka 223. Probally get her a tikka 243 once she is ready for elk as I hate the brake on the 308.

 

[Robobiss]

It's been stated elsewhere, but I'll say it again here... I firmly believe that .243 is the absolute upper end of what I'd have a kid shoot a lot of.

Lots of guys view 6.5cm, 7-08, etc as good "kid guns" but anything with 40+ grains of powder behind a 140 grain bullet is producing more recoil than a kid ought to be trying to develop good habits with. I had a similar view, started my oldest with 7mm-08 at 10 with 120gr bullets and it was a mistake. He's a lot better rifleman now, and switching to .223 for him was a big part of that. A .243 pushes a 100lb kid around like a .30-06 pushes a 200lb guy, and a 6.5CM or 7mm-08 (15 ft lb recoil energy) hits them like an 8lb .300WM hits a 200 lb guy. People really underestimate how much of an effect recoil has on kids.

Every single person I know of who recommends 6.5CM/7mm-08 for preteen kids has either not taught nor than 2-3 kids to shoot seriously, or has not seen heavy tipped .22 and 6mm bullets on game. Every single person who has done both of those things is 100% 6mm and under for kids (and often for themselves)

This. My dad got me a little model 7 in 243 when I was 10, that thing knocked my socks off.

I’m so thankful that he didn’t get me into anything bigger, the 243 was plenty of recoil, anything bigger and I wouldn’t have liked to shoot, and I was a big kid.

Things probably would have been different with a suppressor as it makes shooting so much more enjoyable, easier, and scrubs so much recoil, but pretty much nobody had them back then.

*maybe* a kid could be alright with a suppressed 6.5 creed, but they would be much better off with a suppressed .243 or 6 creed.

My kid will start with a suppressed .223 and probably use that until he is ready for his drivers license, state laws aside there’s little reason to move to anything bigger.

 

[Burnt Reynolds]

This. My dad got me a little model 7 in 243 when I was 10, that thing knocked my socks off.

I’m so thankful that he didn’t get me into anything bigger, the 243 was plenty of recoil, anything bigger and I wouldn’t have liked to shoot, and I was a big kid.

Things probably would have been different with a suppressor as it makes shooting so much more enjoyable, easier, and scrubs so much recoil, but pretty much nobody had them back then.

*maybe* a kid could be alright with a suppressed 6.5 creed, but they would be much better off with a suppressed .243 or 6 creed.

My kid will start with a suppressed .223 and probably use that until he is ready for his drivers license, state laws aside there’s little reason to move to anything bigger.

The latter sentence is precisely why I am engaged in this exercise. I have had a 556 ruger American ranch for about 8 or 9 years. Setup with an atlas bipod, vx3i 3.5-10, yhm ti 556 can. Last year Ruger sent me a youth stock which has worked out great. My son probably has at least 500 rounds through it all of which being 73-77 grain class projectiles. He’s great with it. Really consistent out to about 300 yards. He carries it well and loves shooting it.

In a perfect world nothing would change. Alas, Oregon requires a larger cal for elk…not an urgent matter but I would like to capitalize on holiday sale prices and start putting a package together sooner rather than later.