Solid Vintage Scopes

[SloppyJ]

I couldn't do it, I couldn't just walk by and leave one of my dream rifles as I left the gun show today.

My wife looked at me crazy helping me make signs for 3 rifles I wanted to sell last night. She thought I was up to something since I never sell guns. Well I had one left on my pack I hadn't sold and laid eyes on a beautiful 1952 Model 70 chambered in .270. Made the deal, a straight up trade and walked out a little heavier than I expected but a happy man.

Anyway, I have zero confidence in modern Leupold scopes and this one came with a Vari-X 3.5x10. An earlier version of the Vx3 that I traded the guy with my rifle. He loved it as most people do. I hope he likes chasing his zero because I fought that for 6mo before I figured it out.

Are there any vintage scopes that are solid? I'd like to keep something somewhat period correct on this dude. Doesn't have to be from the 50s but I really don't want to put a new model scope on it.

Looking for something like a 3x9 with capped elevation and turrets. I've read up on them today but I don't trust many reviews. Something like the 4x12 Redfield or the Kahles 2x7 Helia look appealing but how do they hold up?

I don't need alpha glass or great tracking, just zero retention. I will test the current optic but I have no hope for it but maybe I'll be surprised.

Not planning on using this gun a ton in the field but I want both of my boys to use it eventually and pass it down to them. I've always wanted a pre 64 and today was my opprotunity.

Side note, the previous owner had it for 34yrs and showed me a picture of him, the gun, and a absolute giant grizzly he shot in Alaska. Pretty cool story to top it off.

 

[Schmo]

Beautiful! You need like an old Weaver K4 or something.

 

[Bugger]

There’s a seller on eBay that goes by “Riflescopes” and sells a ton of older scopes with good pictures of the view thru the scope as well, might be worth a look when you get a model nailed down.

 

[onlybrowning]

Gorgeous rifle! Maybe you’ll find that Leupy that’s on there holds zero better than you’d expect.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ericmcd]

Weaver k4

 

[100percent]

Been there! I feel the same as you! Find a mint zeiss diatal, zeiss diavari C or Swarovski habicht nova on gunsinternational or eBay. It’s not uncommon to find them new in the box for$1K or less.
Keep in mind those mentioned remain excellent aiming devices but expect to see a marked difference in glass. Image quality has improved dramatically over the last 30-40 years!

 

[cal30_sniper]

Steel tube Weaver
Colorado Redfield
Lyman
Bausch & Lomb Balvar 8 (adjusts with the mount, scope crosshairs are fixed.
Leupold Vari-x (what you have)

I’ve had good luck with all of the above, though some/most are drastically lacking in lens coatings that really show up in low light conditions. Some of them either never were nitrogen purged, or have lost their purge, so condensation can become an issue in temperature swings as well.

The Balvars are bulletproof, but the lens bonding epoxy deteriorates over time and leaves black flecks in the FOV. You used to be able to send them in and have them fixed, but those days are probably past.

For the price, the Colorado Redfields are my favorite.

 

[Formidilosus]

I couldn't do it, I couldn't just walk by and leave one of my dream rifles as I left the gun show today.

My wife looked at me crazy helping me make signs for 3 rifles I wanted to sell last night. She thought I was up to something since I never sell guns. Well I had one left on my pack I hadn't sold and laid eyes on a beautiful 1952 Model 70 chambered in .270. Made the deal, a straight up trade and walked out a little heavier than I expected but a happy man.

Anyway, I have zero confidence in modern Leupold scopes and this one came with a Vari-X 3.5x10. An earlier version of the Vx3 that I traded the guy with my rifle. He loved it as most people do. I hope he likes chasing his zero because I fought that for 6mo before I figured it out.

Are there any vintage scopes that are solid? I'd like to keep something somewhat period correct on this dude. Doesn't have to be from the 50s but I really don't want to put a new model scope on it.

Looking for something like a 3x9 with capped elevation and turrets. I've read up on them today but I don't trust many reviews. Something like the 4x12 Redfield or the Kahles 2x7 Helia look appealing but how do they hold up?

I don't need alpha glass or great tracking, just zero retention. I will test the current optic but I have no hope for it but maybe I'll be surprised.

Not planning on using this gun a ton in the field but I want both of my boys to use it eventually and pass it down to them. I've always wanted a pre 64 and today was my opprotunity.

Side note, the previous owner had it for 34yrs and showed me a picture of him, the gun, and a absolute giant grizzly he shot in Alaska. Pretty cool story to top it off.

80’s model and earlier Zeiss Diatal and Schmidt and Benders.

 

[Kyguy]

I'm going to take a different route to this... So you traded a guy a rifle with a scope for a rifle with a scope. You know the scope that's on the rifle that you traded doesn't work properly and you feel good about that? Or am I misunderstanding what you typed? Also, you could do something really crazy and do some testing with the scope that's on the rifle you got before making a change.... Especially since it's in the old dovetail style mounts, which I think is the bigger issue for zero retention.

 

[Fishermen0105]

For a 1950s rifle if you want period correct I’d go kollmorgen or weaver.

Kollmorgen


Weaver 60b

 

[Weldor]

Bushnell (made by baush & lomb) 3x9x40 with ballistic turrets. I have 2 and they track just fine. I finally retired them but never had a issue with either.

 

[TaperPin]

What a cool iconic old rifle!

I wouldn’t trust any variables out of the 1960s, 1970s or 1980s. If there ever were imported variables worth a hoot they never made it to matches or the gun range back then. American variables of the period were too lightly constructed with big cutouts in the tube for the power selector to be very tough, and at something like a silhouette match variables were babied. If they had target turrets, variables with 1” tubes don’t have a lot of adjustment range, while fixed 1” scopes don’t have as much junk inside and adjust much further.

A number of 6x scopes from Leupold, Burris, Weaver, Redfield and I think even Sightron were made with target turrets for hunter class benchrest, but they usually have a very thin reticle.

4x, 6x or 8x Leupold is period correct and quite usable as an all around mountain and open country scope. In an accurate rifle 4x is good for at least 3/4 MOA if you can see ‘em, and 6x or 8x can shoot 1/2 MOA no problem if the rifle is capable.

More than one Leupold was and is packed around with a dime under the turret cap if you need to “dial” a long shot.

 

[SloppyJ]

Thank you guys! Tons of info and a lot to dive into.

I'm going to take a different route to this... So you traded a guy a rifle with a scope for a rifle with a scope. You know the scope that's on the rifle that you traded doesn't work properly and you feel good about that? Or am I misunderstanding what you typed? Also, you could do something really crazy and do some testing with the scope that's on the rifle you got before making a change.... Especially since it's in the old dovetail style mounts, which I think is the bigger issue for zero retention.

I had rings and bases on my gun and was selling a scope that I had issues with n a high powered rifle separately at a more than fair price due to the issues I had. You could likely place it on a lower recoiling rifle and get better results. I didn't care to find out. He wanted extra boot because his rifle was scoped and saw my scope for sale, the actual same (3.5x10 leupold) as his, albeit from a newer generation of models, and said if I'd throw it in we had a deal.

You can try to take the high road on me all you want but that's how things work. If you'd like to right what's wrong in the world I can sell it to you next time and you can throw it away. How about we agree that the company selling the scopes is to blame. I have as much confidence in my scope as the one that came on the rifle I traded for.

Obviously I'm going to test the scope thats on it. Maybe there's enough grime on it to hold it in the old style rings and the internals have corroded together to keep it from wandering. I'm being sarcastic.

Since we do so much testing here, I knew there would be some people with field experience with these older scopes which is why i asked. The Lepy on the pre war M70 is a classic look but id rather have something that functioned in the likely event I have zero retention issues. And yes, I do agree the bases are suspect as well but havent dug into a resolution for that yet.

 

[SloppyJ]

For a 1950s rifle if you want period correct I’d go kollmorgen or weaver.

Kollmorgen
View attachment 863674

Weaver 60b
View attachment 863675

Stunning rifle with tons of character. Thank you for sharing!

 

[SloppyJ]

What a cool iconic old rifle!

I wouldn’t trust any variables out of the 1960s, 1970s or 1980s. If there ever were imported variables worth a hoot they never made it to matches or the gun range back then. American variables of the period were too lightly constructed with big cutouts in the tube for the power selector to be very tough, and at something like a silhouette match variables were babied. If they had target turrets, variables with 1” tubes don’t have a lot of adjustment range, while fixed 1” scopes don’t have as much junk inside and adjust much further.

A number of 6x scopes from Leupold, Burris, Weaver, Redfield and I think even Sightron were made with target turrets for hunter class benchrest, but they usually have a very thin reticle.

4x, 6x or 8x Leupold is period correct and quite usable as an all around mountain and open country scope. In an accurate rifle 4x is good for at least 3/4 MOA if you can see ‘em, and 6x or 8x can shoot 1/2 MOA no problem if the rifle is capable.

More than one Leupold was and is packed around with a dime under the turret cap if you need to “dial” a long shot.

Awesome lesson. Thank you man.

 

[100percent]

For a 1950s rifle if you want period correct I’d go kollmorgen or weaver.

Kollmorgen
View attachment 863674

Weaver 60b
View attachment 863675

I’m giving you a nod for this beautiful rifle combo but, you deserve a full salute for your avatar!

 

[NRA4LIFE]

I still have a couple old Redfield Trackers on a couple of my rifles that I hunt with every year. They have helped kill a lot of critters.

 

[plebe]

Not sure if your love of this rifle has any basis in such nostalgia. But:

Jack O'Connor's Perfect Model 70

How Jack O'Connor's insight on the Winchester Model 70 helped shape the concept of the American classic rifle and continues to influence generations of big-game hunters.

www.outdoorlife.com

Sheep Rifle No. 2​

O’Connor was 57 years old when he walked into Erb Hardware in Lewiston, Idaho, and bought a new Featherweight Model 70 in .270. Out-of-the-box accuracy was rare, and this gun was exceptional. Surprised his new rifle was capable of minute-of-angle accuracy, O’Connor took it to gunsmith Al Biesen to customize it.

The grip cap is deeply engraved with the image of a bull moose. John Hafner
Like his No. 1, this rifle also was stocked in French walnut, with a slim, pear-shaped wrist, and fleur-de-lis checkering recessed about ¹⁄₃₂ of an inch. The grip cap was engraved with a moose head. On the butt was a trap-style plate engraved with a ram. Turning the gun over revealed an unadorned steel floor plate, its release lever inside the bow of the trigger guard.

The jeweled bolt slid back and forth in the action, smoothed by a master machinist’s touch. The bolt handle was checkered to give it texture in the heel of the hand. It carried a Leupold Mountaineer 4X scope fixed in Buehler mounts. The rifle weighed 8 pounds and fast became his new favorite, dubbed Sheep Rifle No. 2.

The steel butt shows a running ram surrounded by oak leaves. John Hafner
The No. 2 went to Botswana with O’Connor in 1966, and he hunted with it in Spain, Iran, and Scotland. It accounted for a northern whitetail in Idaho and three Stone’s sheep in 1973, and O’Connor carried it on his last big-game hunt, in 1977. It remains in the O’Connor family and is on display at the museum that bears his name in Lewiston, Idaho.

 

[Kyguy]

Thank you guys! Tons of info and a lot to dive into.

I had rings and bases on my gun and was selling a scope that I had issues with n a high powered rifle separately at a more than fair price due to the issues I had. You could likely place it on a lower recoiling rifle and get better results. I didn't care to find out. He wanted extra boot because his rifle was scoped and saw my scope for sale, the actual same (3.5x10 leupold) as his, albeit from a newer generation of models, and said if I'd throw it in we had a deal.

You can try to take the high road on me all you want but that's how things work. If you'd like to right what's wrong in the world I can sell it to you next time and you can throw it away. How about we agree that the company selling the scopes is to blame. I have as much confidence in my scope as the one that came on the rifle I traded for.

Obviously I'm going to test the scope thats on it. Maybe there's enough grime on it to hold it in the old style rings and the internals have corroded together to keep it from wandering. I'm being sarcastic.

Since we do so much testing here, I knew there would be some people with field experience with these older scopes which is why i asked. The Lepy on the pre war M70 is a classic look but id rather have something that functioned in the likely event I have zero retention issues. And yes, I do agree the bases are suspect as well but havent dug into a resolution for that yet.

This a great example of why I really won't buy used optics anymore. I bought 10 different used scopes in 2023 and 2024, Burris, Vortex, Zeiss, Bushnell, Sightron, Riton, Leupold, and every single one of them had issues not disclosed in the sale. All were from ebay and gunbroker. Yeah, I sent them in and they got replaced with stuff I didn't want, because they were all discontinued models, so I sold the new stuff to get my money back.

Call it taking the high road if you want. I've been burned enough over the years that at this point, I don't sell anything without full disclosure. If I'm selling a rifle that won't shoot better than 2" with anything I've tried, I tell people that. Same with a scope that may be having issues. I'd have sent it in to Leupold, and if they sent it back with a clean bill of health, I'd include that in the sale with the scope.

Regardless, I hope that the rifle works out for you. I don't really know, or have read of, any older scopes from that era that are renowned for holding zero, other than maybe the old steel Weavers or the Bausch and Lomb's. Good luck with it.