Snow Caves

[JustJustin]

Just curious how many of y'all have slept in a snow cave. I spent 2 nights in a cave that I made in our yard and was pleasantly surprised how cozy it was with no stove or candle with temps in the single digits all night. I just piled up snow with a shovel and then dug it out. I used what slid off the metal roof on the outside because it was wetter and therefore had the potential to freeze harder. I also sprinkled a little water on for extra strength.
Anybody have tips/experiences to share? Also, has anybody backpacked in somewhere with just a shovel and ditched the tent?

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[reaper]

Done it when i was young,with some candles inside.It was warm.I put long sticks on top,it give more Strength to the shelter and when you dig the hole i stop when i see the tip of the sticks.

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[zach14]

I slept in a snow cave when i was younger and when we woke up in the morning the cave was only about 10 inches from our face. It was a fairly comfortable night, but not something i enjoy doing.

 

[skyler_2010]

I went on a winter survival encampment and our shelter was made from 3 sticks about 2 inches around one between two trees and the other 2 down to the ground used pine branches as support under a tarp then piled with snow. Fire wall in front with a space blanket to reflect the heat in. It was honestly more comfortable than we had for the summer encampment. Makes me want to go out again

 

[mtnbiker208]

I have used tree wells many a times.

 

[Vandy321]

Awesome!

Snow caves are great, I used to sleep in them during mountaineers club outtings as a kid, super cozy. It's been forever, I need to try that next snow storm.

Are we still supposed to put a vent hole in the top? I thought I remembered that key to keep it from collapsing on us at night.

 

[TREE ‘EM]

Done right there a comfortable effective shelter.
Done wrong there a tomb.

 

[GrumpyHiker]

I do one or two backcountry snowshoe trips every year and sleep in a snow cave. The warmth is good vs being out in negative temps and its extremely quiet regardless of what is going on outside (usually blistering wind).

As mentioned above, you'd better know what you're doing or be okay with dying in one of the worst ways possible. I go alone so I've mostly made peace with it.

 

[Mike Islander]

Um...not for me. Looks like fun, for someone else.

 

[mtwarden]

many times, also snow trenches and snow/debris shelter- gets a little boring here in Montana in the winter

my favorite piece of kit for this endeavor is an eVent bivy- keeps moisture out of my sleeping bag

 

[JustJustin]

Thanks for the input guys- keep it coming.

How thick should the walls be? Is there a balance between extra work and extra weight over your body and too much insulation(might make it drip more if it's not extremely cold outside) vs not enough strength and insulation.

Do y'all make a hole in the top? I slept in mine head toward the entrance so it would ventilate better and my feet wouldn't get cold. I did not make a hole in the top. I think a hole would probably reduce dripping, especially if it's near freezing.

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[mtwarden]

I just poke a few holes through the snow w/ a long branch- not sure if it helps, but that's the way I've always done it

walls can vary depending on how much snow, but usually mine in the 18" range

here's a nifty cartoon with a few good tips- I especially like keep the shovel inside the shelter!

 

[JustJustin]

Hey, I like that cartoon. But it's a little more sophisticated than what I built! I would like to make a big one sometime.

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[GrumpyHiker]

I have two theories on the subject:

A) You can go with a thick roof for stability and insulation (though I don't think that matters much in my climate, ideally it stays right at the freezing point). I spent some time, not slept, in a snow cave that probably had ~2-3ft of snow for a ceiling and while it felt very stable it was very uncomforting to know that should anything go wrong, 6 minutes of slow, agonizing death is waiting. I like the 18" recommendation but it still makes me uncomfortable being alone.

B) Dig a shelter aiming for 6-8" of ceiling. Keep the area dome-shaped for sidewall support and then sleep in the middle or thinnest area to have some hope than you can push your way out should the ceiling collapse. Digging a cold-sink also helps with temps and possibly dispersing snow in a collapse (I don't usually dig a sink but often consider it).

I choose the latter because it allows for some hope of getting out in a collapse and I'm still isolated from the elements. I do dig an air hole and that is primarily because I often block the entrance to avoid wind drafts; it also allows another (possibly negligible) safety in a collapse.

Temps aren't a concern for me since I'm at 10-11k feet on these trips. It is guaranteed to be well below freezing and most likely in the negatives.

Snow quality is also an important consideration. I evaluate the snow when building a snow cave just the same as evaluating avalanche danger.



Disclaimer: I am in no way an expert on the subject matter and have been accused of being careless with my life many times. Just put some thought into what you are doing and you will be ok.

 

[Sled]

i have and train avalanche dogs. i can't count the number of holes i've put into the snow and been in for extended periods. that said, i bet i've only spent the night in a dozen. the cartoon above is good advice. my trick is to dig easy and reconstruct the floor or traps when i'm done. it's a pita to dig these intricate snow caves. just make it easy.

keys to success:

know the density of the snow around you. too soft and it will collapse or creep too quickly. you can make snow harder by digging, adding some heat (candle) and allowing to set (refreeze).

tree wells are great for quick, dry shelter. nothing like getting hot, sweaty and soaked digging in the snow. the tree did 90% of the work for you and gave you a mattress.

for places with weak snow or not enough depth, try a quinzee. just dig and pile up snow into a mound. compact it or wait for it to solidify and dig your shelter in the mound.

after a night or two the roof will creep down. you can shave the roof and make it back into the domed shape you desire for another couple nights. in strong snow you can sleep at the bottom of a 10' snowpack and see minimal sagging of your roof if it is well ventilated.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Dug a shallow cave once in 1982 when caught in a whiteout while snow surfing (powder boards that came out before snowboards and were not allowed on ski slopes) where we sat it out for about 4 hours. Wicked front came and went but dropped heavy snowfall. Never been in a storm like that before or since. You could not see 20 yards. We were field testing and redesigning a new product called a Winterstick for a company located in CO. We were doing some cross country surfing near Donner Pass in NV. I didn't like being in that cave one bit.

 

[AKducks]

Use to do it all the time with the scouts, every year we we would go to Skagway and DOT would pile up snow and we'd dig snow caves into the berm. we got pretty good at it, even had a full on door that we would set up ( old closet door that we built a frame for out of 2X4s) its amazing how warm they can be (40 F inside and -30 outside).

The keys to a good cave are:
1) cold pit ie its the warmest if your sleeping area is above the entry but that,s not normally possible
2) Dome roof
3) Air hole (CO is real and can kill you)
4) smooth roof any ridge will develop water droplets that can drip on you.
5) Mark your cave, on one trip we had a snow machine run right over our cave granted he drove right around the ski poles we had set up like an X so maybe its better to set up out of the way.

 

[rklein]

I've done the quinzee shelters several times, they do work. I used to go every winter after the boy scouts in my area took their annual winter trip because I could just use theirs and not have to construct my own. If you really want to upgrade your game get one of the icebox igloo makers(link below). Its a little bit of work but I build a couple every winter. Kids in the neighborhood love it and they are much more comfortable to winter camp in. The best is to build the igloo(ideally with two guys), and then tunnel the doorway under instead of cutting one out of the side, this keeps it a bit warmer. You can cover the hole with a tarp when you are inside and have almost no drafts(poke a small hole through the roof for some ventilation). I've got some pictures on the computer at home I will try to post.

https://grandshelters.com/icebox-igloo-tools/

 

[Pigdog]

Did it several times when I was younger. I don’t plan on doing it again.

 

[JustJustin]

So.... I finally actually did a backcountry snowcave, several weeks ago. There hadn't been significant snow for 3 weeks, and the last snow was extremely dense, so it was very stable. I actually walked around in snowshoes directly above the cave after I was done residing in it, and it didn't collapse.
There was about 4' of snowpack and I dug in near a peak where I could tell it was drifted deeper. I dug an entrance straight toward the peak, then dug the cave sideways on the slope. The roof was 2'+ and my shovel handle wasn't long enough to reach through, so I skipped the vent. I slept with my head toward the entrance and on the same level and my body heat created enough draft for air flow.
The weather was low teens, dead calm, and clear. I stayed warm enough in a 40° bag and puffies.

Something that seemed helpful;
I dug a little cubby hole from the highest point in the cave, just to help keep my water from freezing inside my backpack with shoes and handwarmers. It didn't freeze.