Small caliber regret

[Chris in TN]

I hope every single poster in this thread has a chance to get out in the woods this weekend. Breathe some fresh air, maybe pull your boots off around camp and touch some grass with your bare feet, and let all this caliber stuff go.

Did someone say suppressed .25-06? FN action, 1:8” twist, 24” Douglas barrel, SWFA 10x, OG 6.5. Coming soon to a Virginia hayfield or pasture! I spoke to Alpine Rifles about potentially having a wooden RokStok made for it this offseason (one of the reasons I have three nice rifles up for sale).

In an effort to steer this thread back into peace and productivity......our family's 25-06:

When I was maybe 13-14 years old I was saving up my money for a second deer rifle. Dad and I went into a pawn shop one day and saw this sitting there - at the time it was a slow-twist .257 Roberts. We didn't know the twist issue. We bought it (with my saved gun fund) then figured out it wouldn't stabilize any of the 'deer loads' available at the time for .257R. So we sold it. Then traded back for it later. It wasn't what I wanted but it ended up with us. We swapped scopes on it and the old Weaver K4 it came with got lost, and I regret that. But we figured out that it was a wartime nazi-marked 98 (1943, and I forget which factory built it; every time I swap scopes on it I pull the bases and look then promptly forget again, but I *think* it's a mauser-werke) and, the best we can tell, it was sporterized in the 1950's by a gunsmith in Arizona whose name I have long forgotten (it was on the barrel and there was a record of his name/work but that barrel is long gone). Anyway, dad was friends with a gunsmith in TN (Mike Clark, in Pinson, IIRC) that had a spare Douglas barrel sitting around and he offered to swap it for us at a reasonable price. So we did. It's been a 25-06 ever since. It was 26" then got cut and recrowned at 24". Timney trigger and Swarovski PH scope. I'm sure it'll fail any moment now.

Of course it's a 10-twist so it won't stabilize the new heavy bullets but it shoots great with everything from 87 Speers on up to 110 NAB and HIBs and 115 NBTs - as long as you let it cool every 2-3 shots. I genuinely don't think barrels of 20-30 years ago had the stress relief we see now and 'shoot two, let it cool' was and still is a thing. But nothing we've ever shot it at has needed a second shot. Back in the 90's dad shot the biggest buck he's ever killed with it, with a 100 grain NBT. That was maybe my first early clue that you didn't need a 30-06 to kill deer.

 

[Glendon Mullins]

went hog hunting in georgia once with a 223, never again. shoulda killed like 7 hogs but only got 3 or 4 i think and had to shoot some of those multiple times, and watched a 350-400 hog take a 223 bullet to the shoulder and walk off like i had slapped him on the ass, lol

 

[Chris in TN]

Are you drunk?

Not directing this at you, and certainly not directing it at John. At all. I respect both of you and I mean that and I hate these squabbles.

But some years ago on another forum I noticed a very predictable pattern that posters who were friendly and helpful during the day or week, would get really opinionated at night or on weekends, and eventually I was able to put together that 'drunk posting' really is a thing, and it usually isn't the extreme can't-type-anymore pathetic drunk (I've seen that too), it's the guy who's had 4-5 drinks and is flying high and feeling no pain, who is the worst offender.

 

[AZ_Hunter]

went hog hunting in georgia once with a 223, never again. shoulda killed like 7 hogs but only got 3 or 4 i think and had to shoot some of those multiple times, and watched a 350-400 hog take a 223 bullet to the shoulder and walk off like i had slapped him on the ass, lol

What bullet we’re you using?

 

[Glendon Mullins]

What bullet we’re you using?

Remington Hog Hammer bullets, i believe they discontinued them, best i remember they were a Barnes Bullet I cannot remember what grain

 

[huntnful]

After I saw the fist sized hole my 6CM made in an elk, my only regret is not being able to hunt with 22cal in my state. Now I have to figure out if my other gun gets rebarreled to a fast 6 wildcat or a 16" downloaded featherweight 6CM... choices choices.

Don’t be boringggggg. At least go 6PRC

Yeah man. My 22 Creeds really do pretty much obsolete my 6 creeds and 243s. I need to jump up to a fast 6.5 to really gain any killing advantage.

But I did just kill a big game animal with a 308 so obviously I’m still not that cool.

.308?! Ewwwwww lol

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

.308?! Ewwwwww lol

The big, slow, very predictable turd just works

 

[huntnful]

The big, slow, very predictable turd just works

I know . It very unfortunate because I like to act like it doesn’t hahahaha

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I know . It very unfortunate because I like to act like it doesn’t hahahaha

Have no fear. 115 Bergers start to fly at fur next.

 

[huntnful]

Have no fear. 115 Bergers start to fly at fur next.

Nice! That’s what I’m talking about lol.

You have the gun yet?

 

[Billy Goat]

Are you drunk?

Maybe, what of it?





Don't need AI writing my responses yet, so maybe not.

 

[LCV]

Remington Hog Hammer bullets, i believe they discontinued them, best i remember they were a Barnes Bullet I cannot remember what grain

Cause copper sucks. Try again with a better bullet before shitcanning the idea

 

[wyosam]

My dad's voice is bouncing through my head in reading this. He has a way of being really abrasive and sometimes funny in pointing out "obvious" truths one of us is missing. He also always hammered home the fundamentals of stalking and getting in close when I was a kid, with wind, tracking, route-planning, etc.

So, a couple of years ago I was talking about wanting to take a long-range class and be able to take animals out to 600 or 700 yards or so. And he just says, "Or, you know, you could just be a better hunter."

That kinda stung.

But I still want to be able to get to 600 with absolute reliability. That long-range stuff you guys do is like voodoo to me.

600 is still a pretty long poke on game.


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[mxgsfmdpx]

Nice! That’s what I’m talking about lol.

You have the gun yet?

Yup

 

[huntnful]

Yup

 

[willfrye027]

A lot of fluff is online about how every elk or deer is as easy to kill, and that’s just not correct unless you believe every animal will turn for a good angle. If you mind waiting for good shooting angles within the limitation of the cartridge/bullet then sure, use the smallest thing that will kill it if you want to. For most of my adult life I’ve enjoyed focusing on antler or horn size and early on had a tremendous mulie just walk into the trees because the shot angle was outside of the limitations of the rifle. Since then I will never feel under gunned trophy hunting with a 7 mag or larger since I’ve already paid the price once for carrying a less capable combination. Real life comes with a lot of less than ideal situations.

Are you really willing to pass up a big deer or elk at an angle like this? Nothing wrong with your answer either way, but more than once I’ve seen first hand how big talk about shooting ethics go out the window quickly. (Cue the dude saying he shoots everything at 500 yards in the neck and has never lost an animal, or a 223 would easily kill it.)

View attachment 961987

Hate to admit it but yes in rare cases I’ve taken that shot, only on wounded animals that were going to escape and needed to go down NOW.

25 creedmoor and 134 eldm, about 8 days ago in Idaho. Somebody else had shot and broken the front leg of a little forky, they were a ridge behind and no chance for a shot, deer was about to make it into some steep timber. Poor buck looked terrified, bloody, front leg flopping..

Tried to shoot him in the back of the head but hit him in the ass. Exploded his femur/socket. Dropped right there, deer had bled to death by the time I ran up there likely from femoral artery.

So, yes I’d rather have a heavy for caliber frangible bullet for these shots. IMO a bonded bullet making it to the lungs from there, essentially poking a small hole…in one lung if any…that is not a recipe for success. Exploding a ham will kill or maim enough for follow up.

No im not proud of the meat loss or situation but it felt necessary at the time.




The opposite situation was a buck my buddy shot with his 7mag and a hornady GMX. About 350 yards, hard quartering. Bullet went in behind the ribs and stopped in the opposing front shoulder. Perfect shot no?

Buck ran 1.75 miles in a big loop onto private. I luckily found him bedded in the sage brush. Took several hours to get landowner and game warden involved. Finally got permission to kill him. Shot at sunrise, got to him about 2pm, still very much alive, tried to run, finished him off and were shocked at the “perfect” hard quartering shot placement and the very much alive deer. Small hole through liver, diaphragm, mostly single lung.

So yeah for marginal/hard quartering shots the right answer is probably don’t shoot, but if I have to, I want explosive not deep penetrating.

 

[CMF]

I’ve had double-lung shot deer run 400 yards after being hit by .30-06 and .45-70. Does that mean I need a bigger bullet?

What bullet in the 45-70? I find that hard to believe(but not impossible) after the shots I've seen, but all of the ones I've shot with 45-70 have been the Hornady 325grn FTX Leverevolution's. One buck made it 100yds, two made it 40yds, the remaining 15+ deer DRT.