Silnylon vs silpoly

[JohnB]

I don't pretend to understand the intricacies of fabric selection for tent building but Seek Outside just put out an interesting video comparing silnylon construction with silpoly.

I'm curious to hear what folks think.

 

[Beendare]

The ripping in wind was interesting.

I made a tipi [12.5' die, 7.5' tall] from the Sil poly about 8-10 years ago. I used the stronger 1.6oz silpoly from RSBTR knowing I was going to use it in harsh environments and wanted more strength. And I did a rolled seam on panels and perimeter, essentially doubled -that is stronger than heck which makes a difference. I also did more panels- 10 for less large areas of fabric. I can tighten my tipi to where it bends the pole.

I have had my Tipi in 60mph plus winds in Alaska [one pilot told us 90mph gusts and I believe him] multiple times and it was solid, those tipis shed the wind better than any other shelter I've seen. Tipi tip, to shed the wind best, they have to be tight.

The seek shelter I have is the Eolus and it only has a perimeter seam folded once [which is not very strong at all] along with reinforcement patches.

FWIW, I have had Shelters made from various Silnylon. That UL 15D stuff is garbage. My dog stepped on my old Golite tipi and put a 30" rip in it. A buddies 20D shelter was just touched by a small tree limb and ripped.

I think that 30D they use is a great fabric for what we do. [Or the 30d Mountain fabric from RSBTR]

Hey, amateur sewing guy here and in no way do I claim to know more than the excellent folks at Seek....I think it's admirable they are testing their gear but that tearing needs to be analyzed. My guess, the pyramid design catches wind.

 

[Poser]

Interesting. Aren't the Argali tents using Sil Poly, touting the less prone to stretching as a selling point?

 

[fatlander]

Interesting. Aren't the Argali tents using Sil Poly, touting the less prone to stretching as a selling point?

They are.

I’m between a seek 8 man and argali Yukon for an AK moose hunt in a couple of years. This video definitely has me leaning towards the seek, but I’ll be interested to hear/see how the new argali tents stand up to Alaska over the next couple of falls.


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[DeePow]

To add further context. Dan Durston replied on Reddit to this video - his analysis conveys more information than me, an ignorant consumer when it comes to these materials, which results in questions of Seeks bias

 

[bmart2622]

I have nothing against Seek Outside, I own some of there products and probably will own more in the future but lets be honest here, do we honestly think that they will publish test results showing the material they use to be inferior to the material that a competitor uses?!?!

 

[Dos Perros]

I have nothing against Seek Outside, I own some of there products and probably will own more in the future but lets be honest here, do we honestly think that they will publish test results showing the material they use to be inferior to the material that a competitor uses?!?!

To take that further, do we think a manufacturer will purposely utilize a material they believe to be inferior?

 

[fatlander]

To take that further, do we think a manufacturer will purposely utilize a material they believe to be inferior?

To go even further, in the video seek said they’d be utilizing sil poly on smaller shelters in the future, but they don’t think it’s the optimal material for larger shelters.


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[Dos Perros]

To go even further, in the video seek said they’d be utilizing sil poly on smaller shelters in the future, but they don’t think it’s the optimal material for larger shelters.


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A silpoly DST makes sense, but it would put more $ in Seek's pocket than performance in your pack.

 

[bmart2622]

To take that further, do we think a manufacturer will purposely utilize a material they believe to be inferior?

Not at all, but I believe silpoly was not a thing when Seek Outside started and Im not sure if any other companies are using it other than Argali

 

[Dos Perros]

Not at all, but I believe silpoly was not a thing when Seek Outside started and Im not sure if any other companies are using it other than Argali

Silpoly is pretty well utilized by companies making low cost shelters. I personally own a Jimmy Tarps and a BPWD.

 

[bmart2622]

Is Jimmy Tarps even in business anymore?

 

[Beendare]

I've had the Tents from the 1.9oz silnylon [excellent but heavier], the standard cheap silnylon 20D [OK], the 15D silnylon [ too light for a mountain hunt], the 1.6oz silpoly [durable, good but heavier] and the higher quality Silnylon 30D which I consider the best all around fabric for the smaller 2-4 man shelters.

The 30D is very tough for its weight. When you start getting into large panels on a bigger shelter/tipi- the heavier weight stuff shines.

Big panels of fabric will sag if not under tension. I would rather have a shelter with more seams to get that tension than ones with big sections [like 4 feet] of fabric.

The tipis are the best at shedding wind I've ever seen. The caveat is that some of these aren't a true tipi, more of a squared base pyramid design that can catch wind on a side and don't perform like a modified conical shape tipi. That shape matters a lot in my experience.

If I was one of these companies trying to improve my product, I would make it with smaller panels, cat cut and more seams for strength and less sag.

 

[Dos Perros]

Is Jimmy Tarps even in business anymore?

No.

 

[Dos Perros]

Amazon.com

This is a good example of the bulk of the silpoly market.

 

[bmart2622]

Silpoly is pretty well utilized by companies making low cost shelters. I personally own a Jimmy Tarps and a BPWD.

So are you saying that an Aragali shelter is a cheap shelter?

 

[DeePow]

So are you saying that an Aragali shelter is a cheap shelter?

I doubt that is what they meant but Brad goes into the cost here.

I’d love to see companies do tests together. I know GoHunt and other influencers have shown various options in YouTube videos. Yet having the minds that develop the product discuss pros / cons while testing the item would be stellar. Both products are solid and the purchaser isn’t going to be disappointed

 

[Dos Perros]

So are you saying that an Aragali shelter is a cheap shelter?

Yes. And what I mean by that: they would use silnylon if it met their price/margin targets better.

 

[whiskybiker]

So are you saying that an Aragali shelter is a cheap shelter?

They aren't buying them in bulk from China for any other reason.

 

[Brad@Argali]

Let me address a few comments here. First, I love comparison videos like this. We do a lot of testing and they are a great way to test fabrics and tents. It would be easy to watch this video and come away saying silpoly is inferior to silnylon, therefore you should buy silnylon. That's exactly the point SO wants you to come away with. The only conclusion from this video you can come away with that the silpoly they used failed faster than their silnylon. It's unfortuante, but SO has been putting a lot of effort into justifying nylon as a better fabric and telling people silpoly is weak. And yet, us, Durston, Tarp Tent and other reputable tent brands continue to use it because what we know is that you can make strong silpoly fabric if you know how to. You'll never hear me say nylon is a bad fabric, and I've been clear that it is a great fabric, it just has some functionality that I don't care for (sag being primary amongst them, and if you've experienced it you will know what I mean). We let our customers and our products speak for themselves, which they do.

There are many factors that impact fabric strength and there are probably thousands of different silpoly's out there. I can't comment on where they sourced theirs because I have no idea, nor do you. And frankly, it doesn't matter. Suggesting that all silnylon or silpolys are the same is crazy because there are so many out there. Comparing two fabrics that aren't even close to the same strength to start with and then having the weaker fabric tear faster shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. You have to control for all other variables to make a conclusion, and they didn't do that in this video. A 2000mm sil/sil coating is going to be weaker than a 3000mm sil/sil coating, and if I was going to do a head to head test of poly v. nylon I would at least control for that variable, but they didn't.

Also, as I've said many times, every tent fabric is different and the silnylon SO uses and the silpoly we use are not the same as a cheap silpoly or silnylon tent you get at Walmart. Our fabric and our tents are not cheap as was suggested above, and it's unfortunate that other brands are spending their time suggesting that. We use a nano-ripstop silpoly fabric with a 3000mm sil/sil coating on it for most of our tents, and our 8P uses a 30D nano ripstop silpoly fabric. They are great fabrics and I'd put them up against any comparable nylon fabric in a strength test.

The data that we have found and that I've written about previously is that if you get a very high quality poly and nylon with the same denier and coating, the differences are negligiable in terms of strength.

I've always encouraged everyone to do their own homework, but beware of any company that makes a marketing video with a conclusion that ends with a conslusion that their product is better. That's not scientific or objective, it's self serving.