Sig Kilo 2400 ABS vs Leica CRF 2800.com

[Iman]

As I said earlier, all ballistic units have a built in barometer meaning that it provides temperature and station pressure just like you were holding a digital weather meter. If you hit the menu button on any of them it will tell you the temp, pressure, and the angle at which you are aiming it.

That’s all good, let’s say I have loaded same 150 gr bullet in one case with some r17 and in the other one with varget, to the same velocity. With r17 being sensitive as much as 1.42 and varget just 0.13 fps per a degree of ambient temperature shouldn’t you expect them to drop differently at say 50* higher and at 600y? So how to set this up in the Leica? No way. Their temperature sensor seems useless unless you can link the unit to a kestrel and feed the raw data to it. What’s bad is that they are not clear on it, so people buy those units thinking that it’s accounted for. It’s not. Go Sig, go. Just need to clear your optics up a bit lol.

 

[CatlinBrewer]

That’s all good, let’s say I have loaded same 150 gr bullet in one case with some r17 and in the other one with varget, to the same velocity. With r17 being sensitive as much as 1.42 and varget just 0.13 fps per a degree of ambient temperature shouldn’t you expect them to drop differently at say 50* higher and at 600y? So how to set this up in the Leica? No way. Their temperature sensor seems useless unless you can link the unit to a kestrel and feed the raw data to it. What’s bad is that they are not clear on it, so people buy those units thinking that it’s accounted for. It’s not. Go Sig, go. Just need to clear your optics up a bit lol.

They do connect to a Kestrel and use all of its data if you choose to do so only using the the range, angle, and compass to then pass your elevation and windage corrections back and forth. like I said earlier.

You can se up all of this with Leica ballistics as well. You are not looking at the 2800.COM or 3500.COM, I think you are thinking of old generations where you can only use the preset curves. Using the Leica app you input your bullet information, velocity and atmospherics from when you shot and transfer it into the rangefinder with bluetooth. It then adjust based on your current conditions (atmospherics / elevation).

What optics do I need to clear up?

 

[slim9300]

I have a Leica 1600 and a Sig Kilo 2400. I also own a Kestrel 5700 Elite. I have tested the Sig quiet a few times out to 1600 yards, and the ballistic solutions are always within 0.1 MOA. I did have to play around with the speed a tad on the Sig app to get to this point (it does not have the full inputs of the AB app or the Kestrel). I also have the AB app from before I bought the Kestrel.

I have never used the Leica with built in firing solutions, but the optics on the Leica are better. I am happy with the Sig, but I wish it had Leica quality optics. If I had to put a number on it in low light, I would say that the Sig is 85% of the Leica’s optical ability. For archery in dark timber this could be a factor (although the Leica 1600 is useless for archery due to it not having angle compensation under 100 yards). I couldn’t imagine rifle hunting without a Kilo 2400 (or comparable ever again). I am 100% confident shooting out to 1000 yards in low to moderate wind and 750 and in is a chip shot. I use my Sig for both archery and rifle hunting. Just make sure if you do that, you change the modes before a hunt. The rangefinder cost me a great archery bull once when I left in in ‘rifle’ mode. The rangefinder said 60.0 yards but the slope corrected yardage was actually 53 yards. 7 yards will kill you with a bow.

The only downfall of all Sig rangefinders is cold soak. If your rangefinder is below 30 degrees for an extended period of time (even on your chest), it starts to struggle to range long targets (beyond 600 yards). This did cost me a cow elk a few years back when I was trying to fill my B tag. Sig claims that it’s the battery causing the issue, but I use the same battery in my Leica and don’t have problems in the same cold conditions. I have tried all Lithium batteries with the same result. Regardless of what Sig says, it’s the hardware and how it interacts with a cold battery. They suggest that you throw a hand warmer in your RF pouch or stick a chemical toe warmer to the side. This is what I have to do in November. Obviously this can affect your ballistic solution and it’s somewhat annoying, but I simply know that I need to hold a tad high on quick shots inside of 750 yards. Beyond 750 I am required to remove the heater pack and spin the rangefinder for about 30 seconds on the lanyard to acclimatize it to the environmental conditions. In reality you should be doing this no matter what, since that’s what you also do on a Kestrel.

At 1000 yards for my .300 RUM, a 15 to 75 degree swing changes the dope a full MOA or basically 10”. At 750 the variance is only about 3.5”. I’m not taking any quick shots on animals beyond 750 yards, so it’s no big deal for me.

Let me know if you have specific questions. I have had the Kilo and Leica since both were released.


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[Marbles]

I have a Leica 1600 and a Sig Kilo 2400. I also own a Kestrel 5700 Elite. I have tested the Sig quiet a few times out to 1600 yards, and the ballistic solutions are always within 0.1 MOA. It did have to play around with the speed some on the Sig app to get to this point (it does not have the full inputs of the AB app or the Kestrel). I also have the AB app from before I bought the Kestrel.

I have never used the Leica with built in firing solutions, but the optics on the Leica are better. I am happy with the Sig, but I wish it had Leica quality optics. If I had to put a number on it in low light, I would say that the Sig is 85% of the Leica’s optical ability. For archery in dark timber this could be a factor (although the Leica 1600 is useless for archery due to it not having angle compensation under 100 yards). I couldn’t imagine rifle hunting without a Kilo 2400 (or comparable ever again). I am 100% confident shooting out to 1000 yards in low to moderate wind and 750 and in is a chip shot. I use my Sig for both archery and rifle hunting. Just make sure if you do that, you change the modes before a hunt. The rangefinder cost me a great archery bull once when I left in in ‘rifle’ mode. The rangefinder said 60.0 yards but the slope corrected yardage was actually 53 yards. 7 yards will kill you with a bow.

The only downfall of all Sig rangefinders is cold soak. If your rangefinder is below 30 degrees for an extended period of time (even on your chest), it start/ to struggle to range long targets. This did cost me a cow elk a few years back when I was trying to fill my B tag. Sig claims that it’s the battery causing the issue, but I use the same battery in my Leica and don’t have problems in the same cold conditions. I have tried all Lithium batteries with the same result. Regardless of what Sig says, it’s the hardware and how it interacts with a cold battery. They suggest that you throw a hand warmer in your RF pouch or stick a chemical toe warmer to the side. This is what I have to do in November. Obviously this can affect your ballistic solution and it’s somewhat annoying, but I simply know that I need to hold a tad high on quick shots inside of 750 yards. Beyond 750 I am required to remove the heater pack and spin the rangefinder for about 30 seconds on the lanyard to acclimatize it to the environmental conditions. In reality you should be doing this no matter what, since that’s what you also do on a Kestrel.

At 1000 yards for my rifle, a 15 to 75 degree swing changes the dope a full MOA or basically 10”. At 750 the variance is only about 3.5”. I’m not taking any quick shots on animals beyond 750 yards, so it’s no big deal for me.

Let me know if you have specific questions. I have had the Kilo and Leica since both were released.


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Nice details. Great info on cold weather.

 

[Iman]

I have had both as well, sig 2400 and Leica 3500. Switched to Leica because of the superior optics. Regret doing so now. While the Leica bright and clear, the ballistic calculator in the sig was superior. The Leica does not have an ability to account for temperature sensitivity of a specific load when Sig does. Our season starts when it’s probably +50 on averaged but by the end of it it may be in the -5 range so the feature is important to me. Want to avoid having to carry another gadget in the form of kestrel if possible.

 

[crosey5]

I have a Leica 1600 and a Sig Kilo 2400. I also own a Kestrel 5700 Elite. I have tested the Sig quiet a few times out to 1600 yards, and the ballistic solutions are always within 0.1 MOA. I did have to play around with the speed a tad on the Sig app to get to this point (it does not have the full inputs of the AB app or the Kestrel). I also have the AB app from before I bought the Kestrel.

I have never used the Leica with built in firing solutions, but the optics on the Leica are better. I am happy with the Sig, but I wish it had Leica quality optics. If I had to put a number on it in low light, I would say that the Sig is 85% of the Leica’s optical ability. For archery in dark timber this could be a factor (although the Leica 1600 is useless for archery due to it not having angle compensation under 100 yards). I couldn’t imagine rifle hunting without a Kilo 2400 (or comparable ever again). I am 100% confident shooting out to 1000 yards in low to moderate wind and 750 and in is a chip shot. I use my Sig for both archery and rifle hunting. Just make sure if you do that, you change the modes before a hunt. The rangefinder cost me a great archery bull once when I left in in ‘rifle’ mode. The rangefinder said 60.0 yards but the slope corrected yardage was actually 53 yards. 7 yards will kill you with a bow.

The only downfall of all Sig rangefinders is cold soak. If your rangefinder is below 30 degrees for an extended period of time (even on your chest), it starts to struggle to range long targets (beyond 600 yards). This did cost me a cow elk a few years back when I was trying to fill my B tag. Sig claims that it’s the battery causing the issue, but I use the same battery in my Leica and don’t have problems in the same cold conditions. I have tried all Lithium batteries with the same result. Regardless of what Sig says, it’s the hardware and how it interacts with a cold battery. They suggest that you throw a hand warmer in your RF pouch or stick a chemical toe warmer to the side. This is what I have to do in November. Obviously this can affect your ballistic solution and it’s somewhat annoying, but I simply know that I need to hold a tad high on quick shots inside of 750 yards. Beyond 750 I am required to remove the heater pack and spin the rangefinder for about 30 seconds on the lanyard to acclimatize it to the environmental conditions. In reality you should be doing this no matter what, since that’s what you also do on a Kestrel.

At 1000 yards for my .300 RUM, a 15 to 75 degree swing changes the dope a full MOA or basically 10”. At 750 the variance is only about 3.5”. I’m not taking any quick shots on animals beyond 750 yards, so it’s no big deal for me.

Let me know if you have specific questions. I have had the Kilo and Leica since both were released.


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Does the sig automatically adjust for whatever elevation you are hunting at ? For example shooting at sea level vs shooting at 7000 feet. Or does the user need to insert the appropriate elevation into the Sig app ?

 

[slim9300]

Does the sig automatically adjust for whatever elevation you are hunting at ? For example shooting at sea level vs shooting at 7000 feet. Or does the user need to insert the appropriate elevation into the Sig app ?

My Leica does not have environmental measurements built in, the Sig Kilo 2400 does. Honestly elevation is pretty useless in my opinion, it just estimates barometric pressure but the actual pressure can vary wildly depending on the weather/systems. I shoot at a spot that’s only 1500’ in elevation but barometric pressure has varied from 27.8 to over 30. You want a barometric pressure reading and that makes elevation a moot point (and of course temp and humidity).


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[ericwh]

All of Leica's Ballistic solving rangefinders have built in barometer giving solutions based on atmospherics and angle. Without linking to the Kestrel it will give accurate solutions based on this out to 1000 yards. When linking to a kestrel all of the ballistics, atmospherics, and wind are coming from it. All the rangefinder is doing is ranging, giving angle and compass direction. The benefit here is having corrections as far as the rangefinder can range as well as having your wind and elevation calls displayed on both the rangefinder and kestrel. For the PRS or LRS shooters you can also go ahead and make a preset range card on the kestrel using the rangefinder.

I personally use the built in ballistics 95% percent of the time from a hunting situation as I generally am not shooting extreme distances. I will bring the kestrel out in high cross winds or if I am really making a poke. I generally however always use it while playing on the range though as it just makes things a little more fun and having the further solutions.

The most deviation I have found between the Leica ballistics and AB on the kestrel was 1/10 MIL at around 900.

Thanks for clarifying this as I was having trouble figuring out the onboard functionality from the product pages and website.

 

[arock]

The 2800.com accounts for temperature, pressure and angle compensation and can give you clicks based on the ballistic data you load into it. You can use a built in curve or match it up with where you zeroed and the specific pew your boom stick spits.

Its pretty cool. It really idiot proofs the whole dope chart thing. It takes a second to just get the distance which may be an issue for archery but I didn't think it was too much of a detriment for me since I'm not dropping 80 yard bombs with a compound.

 

[Rent Outdoor Gear]

It’s got atmospheric pressure, temperature and angle sensors built in so it’s supposed to adjust for that using own bal solver. Thing I’m puzzled with is that there is no way to indicate temperature sensitivity of the load so it’s not clear how then it adjusts for temperature. Never tried it with kestrel. When linked it looks like kestrel can take over doing all the ballistic calculations using raw data fed to it by Leica from its sensors and then send the solution back to Leica to display.

There is a very simple and effective means to compensate for temperature sensitivity with the Sig in the app.

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