Sig Kilo 2400 ABS vs Leica CRF 2800.com

[crosey5]

I'm very new to long range rifle hunting. I am looking to add a ranger finder with applied ballistic capabilities. I have read a lot about the Sig Kilo2400 ABS and the Leica CRF 2800.com. They seem to have very similar features/capabilities however there is a big gap in price. Sig is about $1299 and Leica at $750.

Why such a gap in price? Does the Sig offer something the Lecia does not? Is the Sig just that much better?

All that said, is there a better range finder with AB on the market?

Thanks

 

[JakeSCH]

I believe Leica needs to be paired with a kestrel to get atmospheric ballistics...where sig has that build in.

 

[crosey5]

How crucial is having atmospheric pressure built in?


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[Marbles]

The Leica is rated for submersion to 1 meter (IPX7). The Sig is IPX4 (splash) rated only. The Leica has a wider operational temperature range.

The Leica is 6.7 ounces. The Sig is 7.5 ounces.

The Sig has a longer battery life and can range further (based on specs).

Personally, I have a hard time seeing the Sig as worth the increase in cost. But, I have not used either, so my opinion is of limited value.

 

[JakeSCH]

How crucial is having atmospheric pressure built in?


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That depends on your intended ranges and conditions. I would say it is not that important for hunting and shooting under 500 yards as long as your ballistics profile is somewhere in the ball park.

If you are shooting at 1000y then it is very important.

On another note, the sigs go on sale often for $900 to $1000 new. If you are willing to be patient, you can find them much closer in price.

 

[crosey5]

I would like the ability to shoot out to 1000 yards.

Thanks for the heads up on the Sig sale.


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[Iman]

It’s got atmospheric pressure, temperature and angle sensors built in so it’s supposed to adjust for that using own bal solver. Thing I’m puzzled with is that there is no way to indicate temperature sensitivity of the load so it’s not clear how then it adjusts for temperature. Never tried it with kestrel. When linked it looks like kestrel can take over doing all the ballistic calculations using raw data fed to it by Leica from its sensors and then send the solution back to Leica to display.

 

[johnp.leger]

I'll buy the viper hds. [email protected]

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[CatlinBrewer]

All of Leica's Ballistic solving rangefinders have built in barometer giving solutions based on atmospherics and angle. Without linking to the Kestrel it will give accurate solutions based on this out to 1000 yards. When linking to a kestrel all of the ballistics, atmospherics, and wind are coming from it. All the rangefinder is doing is ranging, giving angle and compass direction. The benefit here is having corrections as far as the rangefinder can range as well as having your wind and elevation calls displayed on both the rangefinder and kestrel. For the PRS or LRS shooters you can also go ahead and make a preset range card on the kestrel using the rangefinder.

I personally use the built in ballistics 95% percent of the time from a hunting situation as I generally am not shooting extreme distances. I will bring the kestrel out in high cross winds or if I am really making a poke. I generally however always use it while playing on the range though as it just makes things a little more fun and having the further solutions.

The most deviation I have found between the Leica ballistics and AB on the kestrel was 1/10 MIL at around 900.

 

[crosey5]

All of Leica's Ballistic solving rangefinders have built in barometer giving solutions based on atmospherics and angle. Without linking to the Kestrel it will give accurate solutions based on this out to 1000 yards. When linking to a kestrel all of the ballistics, atmospherics, and wind are coming from it. All the rangefinder is doing is ranging, giving angle and compass direction. The benefit here is having corrections as far as the rangefinder can range as well as having your wind and elevation calls displayed on both the rangefinder and kestrel. For the PRS or LRS shooters you can also go ahead and make a preset range card on the kestrel using the rangefinder.

I personally use the built in ballistics 95% percent of the time from a hunting situation as I generally am not shooting extreme distances. I will bring the kestrel out in high cross winds or if I am really making a poke. I generally however always use it while playing on the range though as it just makes things a little more fun and having the further solutions.

The most deviation I have found between the Leica ballistics and AB on the kestrel was 1/10 MIL at around 900.

This was exactly the information I was looking for. From a hunting perspective, I have no intention of taking a shot over 1000 yards. And I'm not the type that spends a ton of time at the shooting range. I am putting together this long range rifle strictly for hunting.

With all that said, I believe the Leica CRF 2800.com will accomplish what I want. I am not opposed to spending more $$ on the Sig if it has that much more to offer.

 

[mthayr]

Two main differences:

1.) Optics - The Leica has the upper hand IMO but you'd have to look through both to make your own decision.

2.) Ballistics - Leica uses their own ballistic calculator ("Leica ABC") whereas Sig licensed theirs from Applied Ballistics. To use the Applied Ballistics calculations with the Leica, you must to pair it to a Kestrel 5700. This accounts for the difference in ballistic ranging distance - the Leica only offers ballistic solutions out to 875 yards (though it will range out to 2800 yards on reflective targets).

Both have atmospheric instrumentation built in, including barometric and temperature sensors (as mentioned above).

Also - the Leica can be had new for less that $700 if you call the guys at CameraLandNY directly.

 

[crosey5]

Two main differences:

1.) Optics - The Leica has the upper hand IMO but you'd have to look through both to make your own decision.

2.) Ballistics - Leica uses their own ballistic calculator ("Leica ABC") whereas Sig licensed theirs from Applied Ballistics. To use the Applied Ballistics calculations with the Leica, you must to pair it to a Kestrel 5700. This accounts for the difference in ballistic ranging distance - the Leica only offers ballistic solutions out to 875 yards (though it will range out to 2800 yards on reflective targets).

Both have atmospheric instrumentation built in, including barometric and temperature sensors (as mentioned above).

Also - the Leica can be had new for less that $700 if you call the guys at CameraLandNY directly.

Thank you for the information, very helpful!

There seems to be differences in opinion on how far the Leica unit will provide a ballistic solution. In this thread alone I've seen 500 yards, 1000 yards, and 875 yards. I'm thinking asking Leica themselves may be my best bet.

If I can help it, I would like to avoid adding the Kestrel 5700. However I do want the ballistic solution out to 1000 yards.

 

[mthayr]

Its 875 - I own the unit and got that number from the manual.

 

[Tikka300wsm]

Its 875 - I own the unit and got that number from the manual.

I also own the Leica and my manual says 1000 yards.

 

[CatlinBrewer]

Guys, for clarification on Leica ballistics:

875 yards limit on corrections is only if you are using one of the 12 preset ballistic curves that you have the ability to choose from.

you get 1000 yards of correction if you actually enter in your ballistic data into the app.

 

[mthayr]

Guys, for clarification on Leica ballistics:

875 yards limit on corrections is only if you are using one of the 12 preset ballistic curves that you have the ability to choose from.

you get 1000 yards of correction if you actually enter in your ballistic data into the app.

I (happily) stand corrected... 910m (1000-ish yds) using custom ABC - an even better value than I thought it was .

I don't have a range that far nearby - anyone get to test this? Compare against Applied Ballistics at that distance?

 

[Iman]

Has anyone figured out how the leica corrects for temperature? Or if it does at all when used without KestrelI? I could not find any settings related to it.


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[Iman]

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[SpanielDog]

As Catlin said, that 800m limitation refers to using the pre-loaded (on board) ballistic curves (US1-12). If you input your own G1 BC, velocity, etc. and build a custom curve, the unit will definitely give come ups in MOA or MILs to 1000 yards.

 

[CatlinBrewer]

Has anyone figured out how the leica corrects for temperature? Or if it does at all when used without KestrelI? I could not find any settings related to it.


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As I said earlier, all ballistic units have a built in barometer meaning that it provides temperature and station pressure just like you were holding a digital weather meter. If you hit the menu button on any of them it will tell you the temp, pressure, and the angle at which you are aiming it.