Sidearm or bear spray?

[AK Troutbum]

A few years back I shot a medium size brown bear, that had initiated a charge from about 30’ away. I was using a S&W .500 and 440gr. hard cast, and I didn’t hit him in the head as intended, but instead I hit him in the right chest/neck area. The bullet traveled the length of his body and exited out his right hip/base of tail bone area. Fortunately for me nobody told him that handguns were pathetic at killing bears, especially when the bullet misses the intended target (head).


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I’d like to also add that in the above scenario, there was a sustained wind of about 40-50mph blowing in our faces, and we were down wind from the bear. Even if I carried spray, I wouldn’t have been able to effectively deploy it until the bear would’ve been almost on top of us.


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[Where's Bruce?]

Both. Glock 40 MOS w/ Underwood hard cast 10mm ammo.

 

[Sawtoothsteve]

Another limitation of spray is when you are dropped remote without resupply option like you may have on day or short weekend hunts. Specifically, if you deploy spray to deter nuisance "camp bear" on day one of a 14 day drop hunt, how do you reload? In this circumstance, I may consider a double carry, but as for me will always have a side arm....with extra ammo for a reload and use another day.

 

[MeatMissile]

People get too simple minded about stuff like this. Yes, pistols suck and no one will convince me otherwise. Yes, pepper sprays suck and no one will convince me otherwise. BUT, I wouldn’t do my job without BOTH, and I only deal with humans and dogs and I have seen repeated failures to stop with handguns and plenty who are totally unfazed by pepper spray. BUT, the public wouldn’t be happy if I approached everyone with a rifle and it would be a pain getting in and out of the car. So, pistol and pepper spray.

Nothing is perfect, but it’s about what you can easily deploy if needed.

 

[chukwithak]

Isn't there a guy in MT who has a grizzly safety course and displays how fast they can close the distance with a live bear? He also demonstrates how bear spray can be extremely ineffective in the wind. I'd hate to bet my life on bear spray instantly stop a charging griz in its tracks. My money is on 10mm.

And that's why I will carry both. If my life depends on it, I'm taking all accounts.

 

[Rokwiia]

If in grizzly territory, I can't imagine not carrying both.

 

[Beendare]

I think the encounter between a grizzly bear and Mark Uptain and his client Chubon should be required reading- lots of lessons.

It answers all of your questions re Grizzlies.

ammoland link on the final assessment
Link


including the read between the line conclusions:

1) Dont be afraid of the dark- Get that elk out Before the Bears find it

2) keep a shotgun at camp for these possibilities

3) Dont guide for Douche bag clients ( he tossed a guy getting mauled by a bear an unloaded pistol !)

4) Dont believe the the many folks promoting spray concluding, “the bear spray was effective”- HE DIED, how was that effective?

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[Bearhugger]

Hunting this upcoming archery elk season in grizzly country, would you pack a canister of bear spray or bring the sidearm?

Just carry both...or hunt with someone slow

 

[nettereo16]

3) Dont guide for Douche bag clients ( he tossed a guy getting mauled by a bear an unloaded pistol !

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Sounds like he hit the mag release thinking it was a Glock safety

 

[Ifunk]

Both of course!

 

[22lr]

The best bear deterrent out there is a bear tag in your pocket!

 

[OXN939]

If in grizzly territory, I can't imagine not carrying both.

Always kinda blows my mind that anyone suggests anything but this. If the threat from bears is enough to worry about, why would you ever consider not having both options?

"Escalation of force" is the term that comes to mind. If you're in a slightly-to-moderately sketchy situation where you have time (read: most bear encounters), use spray. If that doesn't work for some reason or it's a real life and death scenario, use your gun.

 

[Pigskin]

I think the encounter between a grizzly bear and Mark Uptain and his client Chubon should be required reading- lots of lessons.

It answers all of your questions re Grizzlies.

ammoland link on the final assessment
Link


including the read between the line conclusions:

1) Dont be afraid of the dark- Get that elk out Before the Bears find it

2) keep a shotgun at camp for these possibilities

3) Dont guide for Douche bag clients ( he tossed a guy getting mauled by a bear an unloaded pistol !)

4) Dont believe the the many folks promoting spray concluding, “the bear spray was effective”- HE DIED, how was that effective?

—

Hard to believe people would go into such a hostile environment with only a can of hair spray and leave a firearm at home or at camp.........
I’m going with a firearm everytime if there’s a choice

 

[eddielasvegas]

Hard to believe people would go into such a hostile environment with only a can of hair spray and leave a firearm at home or at camp.........
I’m going with a firearm everytime if there’s a choice

I'm with you on this.

Blessing a four legged (or two legged for that matter) critter with the hot sauce requires many factors like wind, distance, HSI (Hot Sauce Immunity) to not be working against you.

Every four, or two legged critter, will respond in a positive way (from your perspective) to a anatomically significant shot(s) with a firearm (I'm talking pistol given the topic) and said firearm does not care how hard, or what direction, the wind is blowing, distance to target (within reason of course) and no living creature is immune to lead, but they might just die of lead poisonings.


Eddie

 

[Beendare]

Hard to believe people would go into such a hostile environment with only a can of hair spray and leave a firearm at home or at camp.........
I’m going with a firearm everytime if there’s a choice

All

IMHO,

 

[Stubborn_bowhunter]

I like both. If I hunted.grizz country I would 100% run both.
One big downside of being in a group with firearms and no spray is if I were to get mauled there's pretty good odds I also would get shot while getting mauled.

Bear spray

Pros: I'd rather get sprayed than hit with a bullet while getting mauled.
If it's on your chest you can set the spray up to shoot from your chest out. It doesn't need to.be drawn.
Doesn't kill sows with cubs
Requires less skill and knowledge to apply in stressful situation
(Also low odds, but spray could potentially burst if it's on your chest whilst getting scratched up. Burn like hell, but it might stop the attack)

Cons:
Wind will ruin the spray.
Can't reload.
Doesn't kill charging boars, or completely eliminate the threat.



Firearm:
Pros: sound, even getting one round off (might) turn a charging critter.
Can potentially kill charging critters in their tracks.
Wind isn't much of an issue.

Cons:
Sketchy to shoot at a bear that's scratching up your buddy.
Usually heavier (depending on what you use)
Can't be deployed as efficiently from the hip/chest.

 

[nettereo16]

I like both. If I hunted.grizz country I would 100% run both.

(Also low odds, but spray could potentially burst if it's on your chest whilst getting scratched up. Burn like hell, but it might stop the attack)

A USFWS biologist a couple of years ago was saved by a burst can of spray the bear chomped down on. Talk about lucky...

 

[three5x5s]

People get too simple minded about stuff like this. Yes, pistols suck and no one will convince me otherwise. Yes, pepper sprays suck and no one will convince me otherwise. BUT, I wouldn’t do my job without BOTH, and I only deal with humans and dogs and I have seen repeated failures to stop with handguns and plenty who are totally unfazed by pepper spray. BUT, the public wouldn’t be happy if I approached everyone with a rifle and it would be a pain getting in and out of the car. So, pistol and pepper spray.

Nothing is perfect, but it’s about what you can easily deploy if needed.

Our instructor stated that pepper spray was effective on 87% of people. I cant imagine who or what those other 13% are. I got in both eye point blank. I thought I would power thru, breath & blink, overcome. DAME,,,NOT not not even close.. Its one of those things that you just cant comprehend till you been there. Please believe me when I say I respect pepper spray. But if I was in GB country I would care both.

 

[MeatMissile]

Our instructor stated that pepper spray was effective on 87% of people. I cant imagine who or what those other 13% are. I got in both eye point blank. I thought I would power thru, breath & blink, overcome. DAME,,,NOT not not even close.. Its one of those things that you just cant comprehend till you been there. Please believe me when I say I respect pepper spray. But if I was in GB country I would care both.

I took my OC instructor course from Safariland and they talk about the percentages between OC and Taser, which is 87% vs 50%. I was following along with the instructor and the workbook, and his numbers caught me by surprise. When I reread it, it basically says that 87% of OC deployments result in the desired effect. That would be pain, vision impairment, decreased ability to attack effectively. Not incapacitation, because OC doesn’t do that. Tasers, which strive for complete incapacitation, only achieve that goal 50% of the time. I had to roll my eyes a little bit when I realized what they did there.

During my career, I have sprayed a bunch of people and a few animals. All but one resulted in the receiver being turned into a burning snot machine who was willing to do whatever I said to make it stop. The guy was a 6’8”, 350lb black dude and all he said was, “yeah that’s kinda hot”. He blinked it out and carried on. I mention his race because it’s documented that darker skinned people are not as severely effected by it, particularly Pacific Islanders.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Agreed.

All of these grizzly threads are “what weapons?”

IMHO, more important than what weapon is to have a plan.


Discuss scenarios beforehand Can be a lifesaver. Yelling bear without a descriition of where ge is or what he us doing is a good start. A buddy that isnt the best pistol shot might get the talk, “ now if that bear is on one of us the other guy is going to run up and shoot the bear point blank, right?“ so much to talk about.

Lots of read between the lines in that horrible incident including numero uno, have a plan, at the very least a discussion. ” Hey there client, have you ever shot a Glock before?”


No surprise, most of these hairy encounters are after leaving An animal in the woods overnight where the bears have time to find them.

Riding out the next day from camp- how about bringing a shotgun or rifle along?

Best wishes to everyone go to in grizzly country this year, we will be.

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Sound advice about planning ahead and discussing things. Can pay huge dividends when things go south.