Sidearm for grizz

[prconnection]

I see that no one has mentioned the Smith 460 xvr. Very capable revolver with a huge ammo selection . Light weight? Well no, but if we are talking stopping a bear I think a 330 grain hard cast bullet would be the ticket. Put that on your hip or on your chest and away u go!

 

[odin0226]

We had llamas tied around camp all week, on the last night we heard a wolf howl in the distance; one was tied a little far so we got up to move him closer. No sooner than I moved him in, I turned around and the wolf was coming in growling. hit him at least 1 of 3 shots at 30-50 yards.
Crimson Trace grips made shooting in the dark possible.

 

[TBossHSauce]

I recently purchased a Ruger Redhawk 4.2" in .44 mag for my Kodiak deer hunt. I loaded it with 340 grain Buffalo Bore and after shooting it here I have no doubt it would have done the trick. I looked hard at the Alaskan but the extra (almost) 2 inches in the gun I have is easier to handle and shoot and the weight is almost exactly the same.

Come to think of it...I have a Ruger Redhawk 4.2" .44 mag with ammo that I need to sell

 

[MattB]

When I've bowhunted Kodiak I have carried my .475 Linebaugh. Funny thing (though not so funny at the time) is the one time I thought I might need it I didn't have any ammo for it.

 

[robtattoo]

At one time, I had (I thought) the ideal backcountry bear sidearm. If I could buy it back or find another I'd do it in a minute.
Rossi 'used' to make an aluminum framed, 5 shot, 2" .44mag revolver. It weighs (iirc) 15oz loaded.

 

[frankrb3]

I've enjoyed carrying my S&W Model 69 for that last two hunting seasons. It's the 5 shot L-frame .44 magnum with a 4.25" barrel.

 

[Blandry]

I thought short barrel slung pistol grip shotguns would be perfect for bear encounters. And alternate slug/buckshot.


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[fuzzy]

I have heard this alternating slugs and buckshot before. What is the reasoning behind it? I'm curious if I'm missing something.

Fuzzy

 

[Blandry]

The general theory is buckshot to the face and slugs to the body. Not that I would know because, knock on wood, I've never had a close encounter. If I was archery hunting in brown bear country I would carry the best bear spray I could find in a quick draw holster and sling a pistol grip shotgun (if legal) with hard cast slugs just because it makes me feel warm and fuzzy.


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[fuzzy]

General theory, I like that. I'm pretty sure that if I ever face a grizz I'm not gonna be "ok I'm being charged/attacked that was my 2nd shot now I'm gonna aim for his face again for a potentially less than lethal shot and now his body and hope I hit CNS and back to the face and so on". That's my general thought but hell I don't run across many grizz. In reality I'd prob freeze up and crap myself

 

[NW307]

I have had good luck with my Taurus 444 ultralite. I know Taurus isn't a high end gun but mine always goes bang when i pull the trigger. It weighs considerably less than my fully loaded G20 and it is surprisingly accurate, not to mention much cheaper than most big pistols. I always carry bear spray and a sidearm in the woods. The spray is always my first go to but the two times I've been charged it was too windy and I was very very happy I had a firearm with me as well. In both cases the bear decided to turn at the last minute but it was definitely a life changing experience haha. If I'm not carrying a bow or a rifle in bear country I'll always opt for a 45-70 along with bear spray.

With target shooting various objects for practice I will always opt for my 44 over my 10mm now, there is no comparison between the penetration and overall destruction between the two. I would suggest you get the biggest sidearm you can accurately and reliably shoot. Both of the charges I experienced there was probably only enough time for one good shot. You definitely want to make sure it counts.

 

[Snyd]

.429 300gr hardcast and up in caliber and weight in whatever flavor revolver you like. The 480 Ruger is a great round. A fat, heavy slow (1100-1200fps) that'l go clean through a bear, probably end to end and can be had in a SBH or SRH. It's a big step up from the 429 magnum. The most bang for the buck in a factory revolver that you can pack on your hip is the BFR in the 500jrh.

It always fries me when a guy asks about handguns for bear and guys come back with "a handgun ain't any good"... or...."pack a shotgun or a 338 or 375". Or, "pack a 10mm auto for quick follow up shots".

Well, bigbore handguns have killed every big game animal on the planet including all the critters that bite back. The proper bullet or boolit is the key, especially when one does not have the luxury of shot placement.

In regards to follow up shots. I guarantee I can get 6 accurate rounds off out of my 454 Redhawk, or 500 Linebaugh, cocking the trigger, faster than anyone can get 3 accurate rounds out of their scoped 338, 375 or any other high powered rifle or probably even a 12gauge pump with slugs. Those suckers kick hard. I've done it with my scoped 45 Colt SBH, faster than my buddy with his scoped 338. To recover from the recoil of a high powered rifle, cycle the bolt and get back on target takes much longer than getting back on target from a bigbore handgun.

A proper handgun round will do the job. A 300-350gr .429 or .452 (and up) hardcast flatnose boolit at 1200-1300fps will penetrate hide, break bones and reach the vitals through 3-4 feet of critter. It's been done 1000's of times for decades and I've seen it with my own eyes. But it's like any other gun. You've got to shoot your gun and know what you can do with it.

These guys show what can be done with some practice. Try this with the 338 or 375 bolt gun.

[video=youtube;5F71SPRFr_Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F71SPRFr_Y[/video]

 

[luke moffat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F71SPRFr_Y[/video]

Have to disagree with you there for sure.....even the bestest most awesomess "boolit" doesn't means squat if shot placement isn't there regardless if there is "luxury" of time to placement or not.

And just because some guys with lots of time behind a big bore handgun can make them dance doesn't translate to most of us mere mortals.

I realize you put a LOT of time and energy into becoming proficient with a handgun and likely shoot a 1000 plus rounds a year to maintain the proficiency. Much like member Fjelljeger does with his handgun.

Reality in a charge no one is thinking of getting off 3 shots with a rifle....or even a handgun. Its all about what you can best place a shot in a moment of panic.

But I digress I really don't know why I get sucked into these conversations and reality is very few in this thread will likely ever need to use a weapon on a charging bear that hasn't already been hit in the act of hunting it. In that case you'll likely already have your rifle at the ready anyways as I don't know a single guide that ditches their rifle to get out their handgun as they go into the alders after a bear.

 

[AK Troutbum]

.429 300gr hardcast and up in caliber and weight in whatever flavor revolver you like. The 480 Ruger is a great round. A fat, heavy slow (1100-1200fps) that'l go clean through a bear, probably end to end and can be had in a SBH or SRH. It's a big step up from the 429 magnum. The most bang for the buck in a factory revolver that you can pack on your hip is the BFR in the 500jrh.

It always fries me when a guy asks about handguns for bear and guys come back with "a handgun ain't any good"... or...."pack a shotgun or a 338 or 375". Or, "pack a 10mm auto for quick follow up shots".

Well, bigbore handguns have killed every big game animal on the planet including all the critters that bite back. The proper bullet or boolit is the key, especially when one does not have the luxury of shot placement.

In regards to follow up shots. I guarantee I can get 6 accurate rounds off out of my 454 Redhawk, or 500 Linebaugh, cocking the trigger, faster than anyone can get 3 accurate rounds out of their scoped 338, 375 or any other high powered rifle or probably even a 12gauge pump with slugs. Those suckers kick hard. I've done it with my scoped 45 Colt SBH, faster than my buddy with his scoped 338. To recover from the recoil of a high powered rifle, cycle the bolt and get back on target takes much longer than getting back on target from a bigbore handgun.

A proper handgun round will do the job. A 300-350gr .429 or .452 (and up) hardcast flatnose boolit at 1200-1300fps will penetrate hide, break bones and reach the vitals through 3-4 feet of critter. It's been done 1000's of times for decades and I've seen it with my own eyes. But it's like any other gun. You've got to shoot your gun and know what you can do with it.

These guys show what can be done with some practice. Try this with the 338 or 375 bolt gun.

[video=youtube;5F71SPRFr_Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F71SPRFr_Y[/video]

^^^This.


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[Snyd]

I think you missed my point regarding shot placement. In a defensive situation where one is shooting center of mass to stop the threat, a heavy, hardcast, flatnose boolit will penetrate straight and deep breaking bone, destroying tissue, creating a wound channel, etc. A round nose or hollow point or soft boolit with precise shot placement, like a broadside shot, has a chance of hitting vitals but will not break bone, etc. and penetrate deep in say a head on shot.

And my other point was that no matter what weapon one chooses, he needs to know how to use it. Whether it be handgun, rifle or shotgun. But for guys to say the handgun is no good is just, well, ignorance. They just don't know or have bad info.

I can't shoot my pistols as fast as these guys in the video, but it does show a guy what can be done. It's all about the shooter, not the weapon.

Have to disagree with you there for sure.....even the bestest most awesomess "boolit" doesn't means squat if shot placement isn't there regardless if there is "luxury" of time to placement or not.

And just because some guys with lots of time behind a big bore handgun can make them dance doesn't translate to most of us mere mortals.

I realize you put a LOT of time and energy into becoming proficient with a handgun and likely shoot a 1000 plus rounds a year to maintain the proficiency. Much like member Fjelljeger does with his handgun.

Reality in a charge no one is thinking of getting off 3 shots with a rifle....or even a handgun. Its all about what you can best place a shot in a moment of panic.

But I digress I really don't know why I get sucked into these conversations and reality is no one in this thread will likely ever need to use a weapon on a charging bear that hasn't already been hit in the act of hunting it. In that case you'll likely already have your rifle at the ready anyways as I don't know a single guide that ditches their rifle to get out their handgun as they go into the alders after a bear.

 

[Steve O]

I was in Kodiak last week. I can’t tell you the number of people that asked if I was taking a pistol. I had to explain I already had a 300 Win it would be wasted weight. I do take a pistol when bow hunting up there; it’s a bit of peace of mind for the wife I guess. I really don’t expect an issue and if I did I would have to get really lucky, I am no quick draw McGraw....

I picked up a Taurus Judge years ago, it gets more time rabbit hunting with the 410 than shooting the 45 Colt “bear loads” for sure. Anyway, the bears must have been up higher looking for food and dens and we were low so again no issues.

I bumped into Phil Shoemaker at the Kodiak Island Brewery. Heard the 9mm bear story and many others first hand. That guy is aces. Very interesting and knowledgeable.

 

[AXEL]

SNYD-I enjoyed your comments here and do not doubt your expertise and field experience.

I did state in my earlier comments that an "expert" is OK with some handguns, but, I do not find them practical for most people in bear country. No offence intended, but, for some decades, I would spend months alone in BC wilderness, could and did shoot one of my CRF .338s and .375s fast and well, no scope, peep sights and preferred these over my Redhawk .44M.

So, for most of us I tend to agree with Luke and would only add that the old "buckshot and slugs" mantra is BS, if one uses a shotgun, as I do sometimes and did for years, Brennekes are THE choice and as many in the gun as possible.

All of that said, I still consider a Freon Horn and caution to be the "first line" of defence against bear problems. Cheers!

 

[FlyGuy]

I'm curious, would one of those gun mounted, high - powered flashlights or flashing strobes be a deterrent at all? I saw one the other day on one of the "gun shows" on tv that was intensely bright. I wasn't really paying attention so I don't recall the lumens, but it was ridiculous high. It was designed to be so bright that it had a real negative physical impact an assailant, but was obviously a non-lethal deterrent. I got to wondering if something like that might also be effective on a bear charge? My guess is : maybe. But probably not. But it probably wouldn't hurt to have one mounted on your pistol either.

Opinions? Maybe there has been a study on this?

Anyway, this got me thinking that I might go with the light mounted on a 10mm Glock instead of a 454 Alaskan.

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[Snyd]

KISS

Forget the gimmicks. If you feel the need for an auto, well, go for it. But, if you are gonna buy a Ruger Alaskan snubbie then the 480 is better choice for your intended purpose. The snubbie really neuters the 44 and 454. Turns them into flame throwers. A larger caliber and heavier boolit will help make up for it. Buffalo Bore ammo has a 410gr load. The 480 recoil is more of a push than the sudden snap of the 454.

Larger caliber, heavier boolit is always a better choice.

I'm curious, would one of those gun mounted, high - powered flashlights or flashing strobes be a deterrent at all? I saw one the other day on one of the "gun shows" on tv that was intensely bright. I wasn't really paying attention so I don't recall the lumens, but it was ridiculous high. It was designed to be so bright that it had a real negative physical impact an assailant, but was obviously a non-lethal deterrent. I got to wondering if something like that might also be effective on a bear charge? My guess is : maybe. But probably not. But it probably wouldn't hurt to have one mounted on your pistol either.

Opinions? Maybe there has been a study on this?

Anyway, this got me thinking that I might go with the light mounted on a 10mm Glock instead of a 454 Alaskan.

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[ramont]

Spray doesn't work like most people believe. That report that everyone mentions (most people simply parrot what they've heard this report says and have never even read it) is actually very obviously flawed. How the report defines a successful spray deployment vs. a successful gun deployment isn't valid, spray is used even when a bear is simply walking around the area out of curiosity while a gun is used only when the the bear actually attacks a person and that results in a lot more successful spray deployments statistically. A bear that is charging is far more resistant to the effects of bear spray than one that is just curious and simply wandering through your space. Not only that but when you deploy spray you'd better hope that the wind doesn't blow it in to your face or you'll be defenseless while a dangerous bear is still in the area.

Even the most powerful pistols can't compete against some of the most common .30 caliber rifles in regard to energy but pistols are far faster to put in to use than a rifle, a couple of lower powered pistol bullets in the bear is far better than no rifle bullets. What's more, rifle barrels are longer than pistol barrels and bears will swat that barrel out of their way a lot easier than they could a shorter pistol barrel, they just had a recent attack in Montana where that's exactly what happened and this guy had bear spray but was never able to deploy it (his hunting partner deployed his spray but they said that the bear just ran right through it like it had never been deployed).

And one of the reasons that this spray vs. gun controversy keeps alive is that most people that have never dealt with bears assume that when a gun is used we expect that the bear will drop dead in it's tracks and that just isn't the way it usually works. Just like a spray, a gun is simply a tool that we use to deter an attack. I don't care if I wound a bear or kill him, all I want to do is stop him from tearing my intestines out. My compassion for his suffering isn't dominant when he's slobbering all over my face. I fully understand that the wounded grizzly will be a problem until he is terminated but that's a problem to be addressed after I survive the immediate situation.

I live in SW Montana and while I don't always carry bear protection I do carry some kind of protection most of the time (we have mountain lions, black bears, wolves, grizzles, and moose around my house). Sometimes it's only a pistol, other times a short barreled semi-auto rifle in .308 Win with heavy solid bullets and sometimes I carry spray along with one or the other gun, but I never carry just spray. The only time I don't really worry about any of the predators is during the winter, in the spring I'm always armed and I might have spray too.