Side arm for bear protection….?

[Pocoloco]

It seems like the bear defense discussion almost always comes back to caliber. I think caliber is the wrong focus. Lets face it, there isnt that much real life data available. What we do have shows about any caliber will work. From my training experience, what is most important is getting trained to use a handgun under stress. Most people can barely shoot a handgun proficiently standing still at the range. Under stress in a dynamic fight, the results will be even worse. Would love to hear more people focused on proficiency rather than gear when it comes to this topic.

Agree, but there is fairly good research out there, that supports your position: https://www.ammoland.com/2019/03/pi...r-attack-95-effective-63-cases/#axzz7MiGcBJMi.

Compelling evidence that shot placement, not caliber is what is important. I carry a 329pd in a razco under binos. My wife carries lcr357 w 38 hardcast under binos. Simple, Lightweight, reliable and we can shoot them accurately although 329pd is worse recoil than my 454.

Now I am tempted to carry my MP357sig…. First world problems

 

[Panhandler80]

I’ve never sold or even traded a gun. My 44 is a hunting gun…by design. Scoped but that would come off obviously. My thought was barrel too long to carry. Really liked the idea of a shorter barrel in 460. Low and behold I walked into a shop couple weeks ago and they had a 460vxr (?)

Thing was ******* huge. I’d rather carry my 8” smith 44.

Then I went back to semi auto in 10mm.

Pretty sure I’m going to pick one up. I’m bad ass with my 44 even single hand but that’s hunting and at range. Think I’d rather have easy follow up shots and lots of them. Having killed at least 100 big game animals with modern firearms, we all know that Horrible it lands makes the biggest difference. And a true scary scenario I’d rather be able to drop 15 in rapid succession in hopes that one lands where it counts

 

[Blasey]

Well said Panhandler80

 

[Panhandler80]

Damn! A Glock 40 in 10mm comes in at 4.5 pounds. I wasn’t expecting it to be that much. Surely that’s at least loaded.

 

[jimh406]

Damn! A Glock 40 in 10mm comes in at 4.5 pounds. I wasn’t expecting it to be that much. Surely that’s at least loaded.

That’s loaded. 32 unloaded. https://us.glock.com/en/pistols/g40-gen4-mos

 

[Panhandler80]

That’s loaded. 32 unloaded. https://us.glock.com/en/pistols/g40-gen4-mos

Whew!

I guess 15+1 adds Up pretty quickly

 

[Panhandler80]

Well…. Sounds like buying new is going to be tough. Just stopped At two gun shops in both said they can’t get them. I guess I can do some searching online

 

[Wyobohunter]

Well…. Sounds like buying new is going to be tough. Just stopped At two gun shops in both said they can’t get them. I guess I can do some searching online

Or just buy a Springfield and have the fully supported chamber and ability to shoot lead bullets without mods. My 10mm XDM 3.8” barrel weighs exactly 35.5 ounces with 10 rounds loaded.

 

[Panhandler80]

Or just buy a Springfield and have the fully supported chamber and ability to shoot lead bullets without mods. My 10mm XDM 3.8” barrel weighs exactly 35.5 ounces with 10 rounds loaded.

10-4. I don’t know much about autos. Don’t think I want a 3.8” barrel, I do know that much.

Tell me more about these mods that are needed to shoot “lead” bullets out of a Glock. It can only shoot bullet with some sort of jacket? Can they not shoot hard cast without mods?

 

[Wyobohunter]

10-4. I don’t know much about autos. Don’t think I want a 3.8” barrel, I do know that much.

Tell me more about these mods that are needed to shoot “lead” bullets out of a Glock. It can only shoot bullet with some sort of jacket? Can they not shoot hard cast without mods?

Correct. The rifling in the Glock will build up with lead very fast and can cause dangerous pressure. Also the chamber has very little support. Also, I wouldn’t go 3.8” either if I was shooting 40 S&W aka 10mm short. I’d bet good money that a 3.8” 10mm puts out higher velocity than a 5” 40 S&W though.

There are aftermarket barrels available for the Glocks. They can shoot lead bullets and have fully supported chambers. I think most people favor KKM. Springfield also makes XDM in 5” barrels in both 40 S&W and 10mm auto.

Edit: my mistake, Glock 40 is 10mm auto.

 

[TheGDog]

10-4. I don’t know much about autos. Don’t think I want a 3.8” barrel, I do know that much.

Tell me more about these mods that are needed to shoot “lead” bullets out of a Glock. It can only shoot bullet with some sort of jacket? Can they not shoot hard cast without mods?

Seem to recall it's the polygonal rifling is the thing. That and the partially unsupported chamber where you can see part of the cartridge exposed out the end of the chamber of the barrel. (The fear there being hot loads taxing the cartridge base since not supported)

The polygonal thing, they say ya gotta clean em after something like every mag of HardCast or something like that? And um... I think the twist rate only supported up to 200gr Hardcast, and that if you went up to 225gr Hardcast it would always Keyhole, from not stabilizing it sufficiently from that extra weight of the projectile. So the after market barrels tout a fully supported chamber and they use button-rifling I think? Either that or micro-groove. The desire being to ensure the heavy 225gr Hardcasts could stabilize and that the discharge be fully support to not have over-pressure signs or blowing out case-bottoms upon discharge of the hotter outdoorsman loads for protection. And also not have as much worry about lead-fouling as the polygonal design apparently has. Fear of causing binding in the barrel from build-up of the lead, rapidly with each shot.

 

[Panhandler80]

Correct. The rifling in the Flock will build up with lead very fast and can cause dangerous pressure. Also the chamber has very little support. Also, I wouldn’t go 3.8” either if I was shooting 40 S&W aka 10mm short. I’d bet good money that a 3.8” 10mm puts out higher velocity than a 5” 40 S&W though.

There are aftermarket barrels available for the Glocks. They can shoot lead bullets and have fully supported chambers. I think most people favor KKM.

Like I said I don’t know much about the stuff. That being said when I said Glock 40 in 10mm, I didn’t realize that “40” wasn’t a barrel length. Thought a 20 and a 40 indicated length. Was not talking about. 40 cal.

Does the Springfield have factory option to mount a sight? Kinda liked that feature for hunting here locally.

 

[Wyobohunter]

Like I said I don’t know much about the stuff. That being said when I said Glock 40 in 10mm, I didn’t realize that “40” wasn’t a barrel length. Thought a 20 and a 40 indicated length. Was not talking about. 40 cal.

Does the Springfield have factory option to mount a sight? Kinda liked that feature for hunting here locally.

That was my mistake. I mixed up glocks… G40 is 10mm Auto.

My XDM elite come ready to mount an optic. I’m not using that feature to keep weight down. Check out the Springfield Armory XDM lineup of 10mm.

 

[Panhandler80]

That was my mistake. I mixed up glocks… G40 is 10mm.

My XDM elite come ready to mount an optic. I’m not using that feature to keep weight down. Check out the Springfield Armory XDM lineup of 10mm.

10-4.

I’d go no sight for side arm, but might put sight on as dedicated hunting gun.

 

[Wyobohunter]

I believe I said “mods”. This is because you may need to replace the Glock recoil spring for heavier loads. I can’t 100% verify that. If you buy a Glock you’ll need to do some research and testing. I just know Glock lost me at “don’t shoot lead bullets in our barrel” so I didn’t look into much beyond that. My other 10mm is a Sig Sauer 1911. I like shooting it more but I like carrying it less… I assume, I just bought the SA.
With my 5” barrel 1911 and Cast Performance 200 gr WFNGC I get 1230 fps. I’d be pretty happy with 1150 fps using the same load in my stubby XDM. I’ll post when I get a chance to chronograph them. FYI I am using a copious amount of Hodgdon Longshot to get that velocity. I worked up to it after speaking with both Hodgdon and Cast Performance.

 

[Panhandler80]

I believe I said “mods”. This is because you may need to replace the Glock recoil spring for heavier loads. I can’t 100% verify that. If you buy a Glock you’ll need to do some research and testing. I just know Glock lost me at “don’t shoot lead bullets in our barrel” so I didn’t look into much beyond that. My other 10mm is a Sig Sauer 1911. I like shooting it more but I like carrying it less… I assume, I just bought the SA.
With my 5” barrel 1911 and Cast Performance 200 gr WFNGC I get 1230 fps. I’d be pretty happy with 1150 fps using the same load in my stubby XDM. I’ll post when I get a chance to chronograph them. FYI I am using a copious amount of Hodgdon Longshot to get that velocity. I worked up to it after speaking with both Hodgdon and Cast Performance.

10-4. No handholding here. Im spread way too thin on hobbies, time and real estate at the house. Those are the mods I was asking about.

Makes sense to me writing off the Glock. I just went there first because I’ve shot a handful and was gifted one. Know what I’m doing in the dark. That’s not hard to change, though.

I’ll keep looking around and start doing some real research.

Edit: To prove how clueless I am about what’s what, I thought 1911 was a model from a particular manufacturer in a particular caliber. Little did I know it’s now a “style” and in lots of calibers.

Thanks

 

[jimh406]

There aren't that many soft lead bullets being loaded for semi autos. Almost all bullets are copper coated at least. Hard cast bullets are fine in a Glock according to manufacturers of the rounds like Underwood. YMMV.

 

[Panhandler80]

Looks like springfield xdm 10mm ends in 5.25”.

I wouldn’t mind 6”. I don’t mind carrying that on hunt. Or maybe I’m splitting hairs? I think my Smith 44 is like 7.5 I know it’s a bit long for side arm especially in revolver, but I’m pretty comfortable with it in general. 10mm going to have smaller footprint. Obviously less muzzle rise in auto by design. But an extra inch or little less would pick up a TINY bit of V, but more importantly (imo) help with shot placement. Seems like 6 is a sweet spot in my mind in target acquisition and placement.

 

[TheGDog]

I believe I said “mods”. This is because you may need to replace the Glock recoil spring for heavier loads. I can’t 100% verify that. If you buy a Glock you’ll need to do some research and testing. I just know Glock lost me at “don’t shoot lead bullets in our barrel” so I didn’t look into much beyond that. My other 10mm is a Sig Sauer 1911. I like shooting it more but I like carrying it less… I assume, I just bought the SA.
With my 5” barrel 1911 and Cast Performance 200 gr WFNGC I get 1230 fps. I’d be pretty happy with 1150 fps using the same load in my stubby XDM. I’ll post when I get a chance to chronograph them. FYI I am using a copious amount of Hodgdon Longshot to get that velocity. I worked up to it after speaking with both Hodgdon and Cast Performance.

No need to worry about that, the Underwood Extreme Penetrators take care of that problem. And with a little less weight in grains so the speeds can get up higher, so less drop if you're reaching out farther, like in a hunting situation.

What's gnarly is watching vids of .450 Bushmaster in those Xtreme Penetrators! Just freight training thru multiple sheets of drywall and barely even show any wear on them! But when the hit stuff like gel, it's not just a pencil hole like with FMJ's, it actually has a wound channel that's so-so decent, while it's penetrating like crazy!

 

[OdinIII]

There’s nothing wrong with the XD but you’ll also be fine with a Glock. “Hard Cast” is no more likely to lead in a Glock barrel than any other barrel. Competition shooters shoot coated lead through Glock barrels by the millions. I personally was shooting almost 10K a year before COVID and $.10 primers came along. That amount of ammo created zero leading in factory G34 barrels. There’s a lot that goes into safely shooting high volumes of lead but if you look down the barrel every once in a while and clean or adjust the setup when needed then you can avoid any possibility of hurting the gun or yourself.

The difference between the G20 and G40 is barrel length (4.6” vs 6”) and slide length/weight. The extra slide weight of the G40 can help if you start reloading and want to shoot over book loads. The slower slide velocity allows you to get by with less recoil and mag spring and still have a functioning gun. None of this matters if you stay with normal factory loads. The stock gun should work.

My G40 with a DeltaPoint Pro and 16 rounds is 47.2 ounces/2.95 lbs. It weighs 51.2/3.2 as I carry it with an X300 light attached.