Shooting Light/Ultralight Rifles

[Eagle]

Question for those of you with experiencing shooting rifles that are sub 7lbs all up (scoped). Yesterday at the range, while shooting my 6.5lb tikka t3x superlite 6.5 creedmore after firing three 4 shot groups that I was unhappy with, and only having my shoulder and trigger hand on the stock, with the rifle rested on a sandbag, I decided to place my free hand on the top of the barrel in front of the scope. I then proceeded to fire a 5 shot group in the .75 moa range. Is this something that is common to these lighter rifles, that they require some pressure on the front to tame some of the jump?

I had always been taught to try and limit contact with the rifle as much as possible, so this goes against my instincts, but I also recall hearing others mention that some pressure down on the barrel on lighter rifles can make a big difference. Is there anything else that can be done (pressure bedding, bipod use, etc) to replicate this added pressure with the free hand?

 

[brsnow]

Yes and downward pressure if holding stock from below. Kimber has a nice write up on the site.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Yes and downward pressure if holding stock from below. Kimber has a nice write up on the site.

Kimber has an article on their own website???

 

[brsnow]

Kimber has an article on their own website???

Yes,

Kimber America | Tips for Shooting Lightweight Kimber Rifles | Kimber America Dealer Portal Blog

Fine 1911 pistols and rifles for both the hunter and shooter. Kimber offers law enforcement tactical pistols and rifles, less-lethal self-defense products, light weight rifles and mountain rifles.

www.kimberamerica.com

 

[Mountainjedi]

Question for those of you with experiencing shooting rifles that are sub 7lbs all up (scoped). Yesterday at the range, while shooting my 6.5lb tikka t3x superlite 6.5 creedmore after firing three 4 shot groups that I was unhappy with, and only having my shoulder and trigger hand on the stock, with the rifle rested on a sandbag, I decided to place my free hand on the top of the barrel in front of the scope. I then proceeded to fire a 5 shot group in the .75 moa range. Is this something that is common to these lighter rifles, that they require some pressure on the front to tame some of the jump?

I had always been taught to try and limit contact with the rifle as much as possible, so this goes against my instincts, but I also recall hearing others mention that some pressure down on the barrel on lighter rifles can make a big difference. Is there anything else that can be done (pressure bedding, bipod use, etc) to replicate this added pressure with the free hand?

Are you using a muzzle brake?

 

[Eagle]

Are you using a muzzle brake?

No brake, I do wonder if that would take care of the issue but would prefer to avoid that added muzzle blast/noise.

 

[Mountainjedi]

They are loud but for recoil they are excellent.

 

[deadwolf]

Muzzlebrake, bipod, good pull of the rifle into your shoulder pocket, and a rear bag should help.


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[Formidilosus]

Yesterday at the range, while shooting my 6.5lb tikka t3x superlite 6.5 creedmore after firing three 4 shot groups that I was unhappy with, and only having my shoulder and trigger hand on the stock, with the rifle rested on a sandbag, I decided to place my free hand on the top of the barrel in front of the scope. I then proceeded to fire a 5 shot group in the .75 moa range. Is this something that is common to these lighter rifles, that they require some pressure on the front to tame some of the jump?

I had always been taught to try and limit contact with the rifle as much as possible, so this goes against my instincts, but I also recall hearing others mention that some pressure down on the barrel on lighter rifles can make a big difference. Is there anything else that can be done (pressure bedding, bipod use, etc) to replicate this added pressure with the free hand?

What holding the forend/scope/barrel does is compensate for poor body position and poor stock design. The rifle is recoiling up and to the right (for a RH shooting) due to the barrel being above the top edge of the butt, and exaggerated by how most position themselves behind the rifle. The lighter the rifle, the more recoil, the more pronounced it is.

An extremely light rifle with a negative comb (top of the butt pad above centerline of barrel) and a vertical grip, with a straight and neutral body position with no lateral deviation will recoil nearly straight back and does not need any tricks to make it work.


Tikka T3x has one of the better factory stock designs, which while not a negative comb, is at least straight, and with the inclusion of the vertical grip can be shot very well with a traditional hold. I.E.- shooting hand on grip, support hand under stock squeezing rear bag.

Easiest done prone. Get straight behind the rifle with one continuous straight line from muzzle, butt pad, eye, shoulder, right hip, inside of right leg. Recoil pad deep in shoulder pocket. Shooting hand bottom three fingers hook and pull grip into shoulder. Fingers do not wrap, or torque. Thumb nuetral.


This hold can be consistently replicated in the field and from almost all positions. Most “tricks” with light rifles can not.

 

[100percent]

Been there done that!
There will be opinions of every flavor but, here goes my own experience....
10+ pound rifles most times shoot their best with one handed shooting from the bench.
Lightweight rifles require muzzle control to shoot consistently. You experienced that in your second group! Many will tell you that placing your hand on top or gripping the forearm creates an unrepeatable pressure point. I say that is true but, muzzle control is a necessary evil with lightweights. You will find that placing your hand on top of the weapon will not be a likely scenario or remedy in the field. Strive for consistency in your forearm grip with as little torque as you can muster. Make a mental note of where you grip the forearm each time as well as the amount of pressure exerted. It only takes a little pressure but, it makes a lot of difference. Good luck!

Form ^^^ posted while I was writing.... Great explanation of the dynamics at play.

 

[Eagle]

What holding the forend/scope/barrel does is compensate for poor body position and poor stock design. The rifle is recoiling up and to the right (for a RH shooting) due to the barrel being above the top edge of the butt, and exaggerated by how most position themselves behind the rifle. The lighter the rifle, the more recoil, the more pronounced it is.

An extremely light rifle with a negative comb (top of the butt pad above centerline of barrel) and a vertical grip, with a straight and neutral body position with no lateral deviation will recoil nearly straight back and does not need any tricks to make it work.


Tikka T3x has one of the better factory stock designs, which while not a negative comb, is at least straight, and with the inclusion of the vertical grip can be shot very well with a traditional hold. I.E.- shooting hand on grip, support hand under stock squeezing rear bag.

Easiest done prone. Get straight behind the rifle with one continuous straight line from muzzle, butt pad, eye, shoulder, right hip, inside of right leg. Recoil pad deep in shoulder pocket. Shooting hand bottom three fingers hook and pull grip into shoulder. Fingers do not wrap, or torque. Thumb nuetral.


This hold can be consistently replicated in the field and from almost all positions. Most “tricks” with light rifles can not.

Thanks for the info, I was hoping you would chime in. The stock I'm using is an aftermarket, wildcat composites, so that may be playing a role. Replicating the pressure in the field was the main reason I started this thread, I'm not real sure that's easily done, and you are confirming that. I'll give prone a try and see if results improve.

 

[wind gypsy]

I would think the biggest factor would be consistency. If you're not consistently square behind the rifle like Form discussed, the way the rifle recoils is going to vary more shot to shot with a light rifle than a heavier one that stays put better.

I've had luck with some lightweight heavier recoiling rifles by putting a heavy load on bipod while prone. This probably helps me be consistent but it sure isn't easily repeatable in most field positions.

 

[sodak]

Craig Boddington talks a little about barrel pressure if you get vertical stringing.

A Light Brigade

Three custom guns that illustrate the pros and cons of lightweight rifles.

www.rifleshootermag.com

 

[Lawnboi]

Had to do the same with a few kimbers to get anything near a respectable group.

That’s why I no longer own a kimber, or have a gun that weights less than 8.5 pounds. In fact I’ll be carrying my 10 pound rifle again this fall. Not because I want to carry the weight but because I know I can shoot it from not perfectly flat prone or a bench.

 

[Teaman1]

I am definitely not a pro in this area, but I am currently trying to get a browning A bolt ti in 325 wsm. I agree with what Form said with the shooting hand. Repeated practice and focus is helping me. Finally shot a 1” group today and have been getting 1.5-3” groups. Definitely a different game when you watch the crosshairs bounce to your heart beat haha

 

[Prestjd]

Had to do the same with a few kimbers to get anything near a respectable group.

That’s why I no longer own a kimber, or have a gun that weights less than 8.5 pounds. In fact I’ll be carrying my 10 pound rifle again this fall. Not because I want to carry the weight but because I know I can shoot it from not perfectly flat prone or a bench.

I concur. My next build I'm trying to get under 10lbs but if it doesn't shoot well with me then it's gaining weight

 

[Teaman1]

Wondering if you got your rifle shooting? I finally had a good grouping with my 7 pound (all up) 325 wsm. What I changed was I found the point of my rifle where the weight is equal on each side and set my rest right there. I used a lightweight rear bag that I will carry hunting. Then I had to mess with my shooting hand to get a neutral grip and straight back trigger pull.
The grip and rest point were my only real changes and I shot a ~.75” group with a rifle I’ve been getting 1.25-3” groups

 

[Teaman1]

Also noticed that I was squeezing the trigger too slowly, if that possible? Took 2-3 seconds of squeezing before rifle actually went off and caused me to have a little wobble

 

[ChrisAU]

I found that lowering the trigger pull weight on my Cooper 92 greatly increased my ability to shoot tiny groups. The rifle was always capable of it, but lowering the trigger pull took out a lot of the variability in my poor trigger pull form.

 

[Eagle]

Haven't had a chance to make it back to the range, but I appreciate the advice. I do think the trigger could be lightened a bit on this rifle, so I'll see if that helps as well. Thanks for the comments.