Shooting a Kimber Mountain Ascent accurately

[Wacko]

I've been drinking the Form-aid as well...hence the tikka's....

I know light rifles can be shot accurately. I used to have a 7.5lb browning a-bolt in .338 win mag. I thought it would be my "ultimate elk rifle"! It was accurate as all get out, for as many rounds as I could tolerate free recoil. There also was no recoiling straight back or spotting your own shots....

I'd like to see just ONE guy shoot a 7lb unbraked, non-suppressed, .300 win mag rifle - with full power loads. Crossed arm free recoil over bags and rear bag. No gimmicks. With straight back recoil, no muzzle lift, no rotational torque. That's how it's supposed to work right?

If they really want to rub it in, how about going 10 for 10 at 600 yards on a 12" plate in under 10 minutes, same rifle...no spotter....with straight back recoil, no lift, no torque....I'd wait here but......(JBM calculator says 210 grain bullet, 79 grains of powder- nosler data, 2880 fps, 7lb rifle.....19.9 ft/s recoil velocity and 43.2 ft/lbs of recoil energy....)


I also found it interesting Foster likes the heavy for caliber Hornady eld-x and eld-m, along with the sierra Tipped Match King and Game Changers for killing - especially at range. So does Form....

 

[Wrench]

I've done the 7.5# unbraked 300RUM. stupid thing broke every scope made. At one point it wore an old BC carbelite stock that would recoil well enough to stay pretty accurate. The problem was the recoil speed was so quick that it scrambled scopes as fast as you could buy them. Stupid thing wasted the bedding in 100 rounds.

 

[eaglemountainman]

Tagged

 

[BjornF16]

I've read Form posts on multiple forums. Seems a non stop complaint of Stock Design and very few designs with negative comb drop (did I get that correct?).

I've had schitty stock designs and builds. Some were harder to hang onto than others.

But if this is really the case.....why are there only 2 stock designs out if how many McM and Manners molds that meet this criteria? Think only the Gunwerks and AG Comp for Mesa design fit this "negative drop" comb design/specs.

Axial Precision stock has negative comb.

 

[Stumpy]

View attachment 171140

Here he points out the issue.





View attachment 171144


Bipods require straight back, neutral recoil to work. The reason he can’t get optimum results is precisely because of his “technique”.



View attachment 171147


If you are missing due to a “crossed arm hand hold”, you have problems and a sling and forend hold isn’t going to correct that. Most people miss because they flinch, anticipate, and snatch the trigger. People miss seeing their impacts due to poor body position and poor stock/rifle design.




This-

View attachment 171148

Are why all of those things are happening. He’s actually straighter behind the rifle in this picture than any other, but it’s the only one that’s from an above angle. That recoil line is out in space. Add the sling and the hand along with his angled body, and you literally have the angled rifle/bungee cord/trampoline setup.

 

[Stumpy]

Guys, there are some rather strong opinions here and the fellow who screen shotted all of the article and tried to pick apart every statement I think is missing a lot. I don't think that you really understand the entire picture. A lot of what he does is directed toward persons of modest means who want an extremely accurate rifle, and consistent killing power out to extreme distances. His methods work and I've used them over and over on actual game, not just paper. I think it's fine to ask questions and disagree but trying to discredit someone by snapping screenshots of his work and then making sarcastic and largely incorrect remarks when he's nowhere to be seen to defend it is a bit small. I guess it's par for the course these days but i've personally used his principles and methods and they work. That's all I have to say about it.

 

[JeffRaines]

What I think it boils down to is this - if your way works for you, then it isn’t wrong. Just because one guy has success holding his rifle whatever way doesn’t mean that’s the only way to do it.

 

[37N23E]

I also just picked up a Mountain Ascent in 6.5 Creedmoor and found these links during my research:

Kimber America | Tips for Shooting Lightweight Kimber Rifles | Kimber America Dealer Portal Blog

Fine 1911 pistols and rifles for both the hunter and shooter. Kimber offers law enforcement tactical pistols and rifles, less-lethal self-defense products, light weight rifles and mountain rifles.

www.kimberamerica.com

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Shooting Lightweight Rifles: Tips & Techniques

The fundamentals of rifle shooting still apply when shooting lightweights—in fact, they matter more. Here are some lessons that will help you get more from less and tighten your groups when shooting lightweight rifles.

www.americanrifleman.org

 

[Stumpy]

Appreciate the explanation... my thought was a little simpler - if this guy is so badass, why isn't he shooting alongside with Ray Gross, David Tubb, and Randy Wise at Camp Atterbury? Speaking of, that dude Wise reportedly rung steel 3/3 at over 2100 yards... looks like his form is all wrong though .

An NRA Shooting Sports Journal | Ray Gross, David Tubb Dominate 2019 NRA ELR Championship

Ray Gross posted the high score using a 33XC rifle developed by Paul Phillips; David Tubb wins ELR Heavy class using TUBBGUN chambered in 37XC.

www.ssusa.org

View attachment 171155

Nathan has never once called himself a badass. One reason he's not shooting with these guys is he lives in New Zealand and is not a target shooter. His specialty is quite literally killing. There is a marked difference between hitting a target, hitting an animal and wounding it, and hitting an animal with one shot and killing it. He's trying to help people become excellent at humane killing. So please don't insinuate that he's ever called himself a "badass" when all he's doing is trying to help people. Do you think he wouldn't like to be in America? If he were here he'd be teaching shooting clinics every weekend. Unfortunately it's a little harder to make that happen legally than illegally.

 

[JeffRaines]

Nathan has never once called himself a badass. One reason he's not shooting with these guys is he lives in New Zealand and is not a target shooter. His specialty is quite literally killing. There is a marked difference between hitting a target, hitting an animal and wounding it, and hitting an animal with one shot and killing it. He's trying to help people become excellent at humane killing. So please don't insinuate that he's ever called himself a "badass" when all he's doing is trying to help people. Do you think he wouldn't like to be in America? If he were here he'd be teaching shooting clinics every weekend. Unfortunately it's a little harder to make that happen legally than illegally.

Yeah I think that comparison is bunk myself. Just because he isn’t shooting with Gross, Tubb and Wise and whoever else doesn’t have any bearing on someone’s abilities. I haven’t seen Form advertising that he shoots with those guys so are we supposed to discredit anything he says?

It’s the same as saying “well x doesn’t hunt with Rinella, Denning, or Newberg so he must suck at hunting”.

 

[menhaden_man]

Nathan has never once called himself a badass. One reason he's not shooting with these guys is he lives in New Zealand and is not a target shooter. His specialty is quite literally killing. There is a marked difference between hitting a target, hitting an animal and wounding it, and hitting an animal with one shot and killing it. He's trying to help people become excellent at humane killing. So please don't insinuate that he's ever called himself a "badass" when all he's doing is trying to help people. Do you think he wouldn't like to be in America? If he were here he'd be teaching shooting clinics every weekend. Unfortunately it's a little harder to make that happen legally than illegally.

Hey sorry guys, didn’t intend to offend anyone and this comment was a little tongue in cheek. I’m sure this guy is a great human and I wish him all the best life has to offer.

The point I was making is that absent solid firsthand info, I defer to reputable manufacturers and folks with a demonstrated public track record as opposed to an internet article, post, or blog by someone most folks have never heard of.

Speaking of @Formidilosus, I asked why he said the article was flawed and he provided some sensible points that I hadn’t thought of. But in the end, I am a “do what works for you” guy. If holding your rifle like this guy helps you shoot better, I’d say go for it.

 

[Stumpy]

Hey sorry guys, didn’t intend to offend anyone and this comment was a little tongue in cheek. I’m sure this guy is a great human and I wish him all the best life has to offer.

The point I was making is that absent solid firsthand info, I defer to reputable manufacturers and folks with a demonstrated public track record as opposed to an internet article, post, or blog by someone most folks have never heard of.

Speaking of @Formidilosus, I asked why he said the article was flawed and he provided some sensible points that I hadn’t thought of. But in the end, I am a “do what works for you” guy. If holding your rifle like this guy helps you shoot better, I’d say go for it.

Well here he is using the technique that the original article referenced:

 

[eaglemountainman]

I have found that all I needed to do, to shoot my two Montanas well, was to lighten the triggers to 2.25# each. The factory settings of 3.25# was causing these fly weight rifles to really pull off. My mechanics are the same as for any other rifle in the safe, both on the bench or in the field.

 

[hunting1]

My Montana shoots great but as mentioned I have 2.5# trigger and hold on to the forearm! You cannot free bore a rifle this light! After shooting my 308 my 10# 300 feels nice to shoot.

 

[HighUintas]

I've bought a few of Nathan's books and although his approach is certainly a little different than most people in the US, I'm sure it works. I'm pretty sure he does some teaching at the Sonoran desert institute.

I've practiced his method of shooting with a sling, holding the foreend, and not having a squared body position as well as shooting the typical crossed arm forend free method so many around here use. My gun is an '06 at about 7lb 10oz and was 6lb 14oz before swapping out the stock to a laminate. I've found that both methods definitely work!! It is MUCH easier to spot impacts, even at 100 yards when using the sling and holding the foreend. But, it is much harder to get consistent tension on the sling and get a consistent firm hold on the forend than it is to leave the left hand free. Also, having the sling tensioned seems to want to torque the stock sideways, so my misses were consistently to the left. I would say the sling, foreend hold, and body position he suggests is the way to go if you can master it. But, it seems to be much harder to master and replicate time after time than using the modern day forend free hold. And that, I think, is what Nathan means by laziness in using the modern day approach. I don't think it's any kind of personal bash on those that use that method.

I decided to go with the forend free option, because it's easier for me to concentrate on correct trigger pull when I don't have to concentrate on the other two things as well.