Shoot2Hunt University

[Dave0317]

Just me.

Though I expect quite a few more by next year.

For the casual readership here, I assume you are saying that tongue in cheek?

Or can you clarify if the M70 is a serious choice these days or maybe a personal sentimental thing?

I know I’ve heard of some good ones, but on average I hear the accuracy and weight just can’t compete with Tikka.

 

[NSI]

For the casual readership here, I assume you are saying that tongue in cheek?

Or can you clarify if the M70 is a serious choice these days or maybe a personal sentimental thing?

I know I’ve heard of some good ones, but on average I hear the accuracy and weight just can’t compete with Tikka.

He’s not kidding. Once sorted out that rifle was shooting small groups and feeding reliably in the mud. The stock ergos are only a problem until the RS materializes for them AICS bottom metal also contributed to the usefulness.

fwiw, my AICS tikka didn’t have any feeding issues (that I didn’t cause with short stroking) while the factory and CTR mags were suffering. N of 1 but interesting.

-J

 

[Formidilosus]

For the casual readership here, I assume you are saying that tongue in cheek?

Or can you clarify if the M70 is a serious choice these days or maybe a personal sentimental thing?

I know I’ve heard of some good ones, but on average I hear the accuracy and weight just can’t compete with Tikka.

The current M70 actions are good it seems, their barrels are sometimes good, sometimes picky; the trigger is a question mark, they suffer from lack of stock choices and no DBM. However, a good CRF does things that a push feed does not.


There is an entire generation that doesn’t know or understand what CRF does or offers. What most people think of with CRF actions is an old fogey with wood stock and Leupold scope- and they certainly are that. However, there is no reason that a CRF cannot, and should not have all the modern advancements. With the MRC we may be seeing that start of CRF becoming a legit option again.

A properly built and assembled CRF action, with well designed stock, good barrel, and correct DBM will be a fantastic field rifle.

 

[rbutcher1234]

The current M70 actions are good it seems, their barrels are sometimes good, sometimes picky; the trigger is a question mark, they suffer from lack of stock choices and no DBM. However, a good CRF does things that a push feed does not.


There is an entire generation that doesn’t know or understand what CRF does or offers. What most people think of with CRF actions is an old fogey with wood stock and Leupold scope- and they certainly are that. However, there is no reason that a CRF cannot, and should not have all the modern advancements. With the MRC we may be seeing that start of CRF becoming a legit option again.

A properly built and assembled CRF action, with well designed stock, good barrel, and correct DBM will be a fantastic field rifle.

Hasn’t it been stated before that no controlled round feed rifle beats a push feed dbm AI/TRG/Tikka for MRBF and MRBS?

Edit: everything fails. However, my buddy’s tikka has had issues in conditions my AI just laughed at

 

[Formidilosus]

Hasn’t it been stated before that no controlled round feed rifle beats a push feed dbm AI/TRG/Tikka for MRBF and MRBS?

Correct. In absolute reliability of the system during high round count testing, no CRF has been able to match the best PF for MRBS. However, that doesn’t mean they aren’t very reliable, just that they don’t have the same MRBS in high round count mil and government testing. Understanding however, that isn’t including human errors causing malfunctions.

An odd school AI is probably the all around most reliable bolt action made- though the Parker Hale M85 might argue; however, they don’t make a 6lb rifle.

The reason PF has a higher MRBS is simple- push bolt forward, round chambers. It’s way easier to get a PF manufactured correctly. CRF requires more work to get timed correctly and in general CRF actions don’t do well when push feeding common DBM’s.

However, a correctly built CRF is extremely reliable, can work with push feeding from a DBM, allows the user absolute control of ejection (with manual ejector), and removes the greatest single user caused malfunction- short stroking causing a quasi “double feed”.
Given ideal rifles in both- PF has less mechanical malfunctions, CRF has less human induced malfunctions. Given well designed and correctly built versions of each, it’s doubtful one could see a functional mechanical difference…. But you will see a difference in user induced malfunctions.

 

[rbutcher1234]

Correct. In absolute reliability of the system during high round count testing, no CRF has been able to match the best PF for MRBS. However, that doesn’t mean they aren’t very reliable, just that they don’t have the same MRBS in high round count mil and government testing. Understanding however, that isn’t including human errors causing malfunctions.

An odd school AI is probably the all around most reliable bolt action made- though the Parker Hale M85 might argue; however, they don’t make a 6lb rifle.

The reason PF has a higher MRBS is simple- push bolt forward, round chambers. It’s way easier to get a PF manufactured correctly. CRF requires more work to get timed correctly and in general CRF actions don’t do well when push feeding common DBM’s.

However, a correctly built CRF is extremely reliable, can work with push feeding from a DBM, allows the user absolute control of ejection (with manual ejector), and removes the greatest single user caused malfunction- short stroking causing a quasi “double feed”.
Given ideal rifles in both- PF has less mechanical malfunctions, CRF has less human induced malfunctions. Given well designed and correctly built versions of each, it’s doubtful one could see a functional mechanical difference…. But you will see a difference in user induced malfunctions.

Thanks for the reply. That makes sense to me. My AI is an AT with the top rail loctite 380’d on. I’d put it up against anything, it’s never failed to cycle no matter what I’ve done to it, from OK moondust to below 0 in WY. My weather here in TX is a lot less intense than the rest of y’all out west though.

 

[Formidilosus]

Thanks for the reply. That makes sense to me. My AI is an AT with the top rail loctite 380’d on. I’d put it up against anything, it’s never failed to cycle no matter what I’ve done to it, from OK moondust to below 0 in WY. My weather here in TX is a lot less intense than the rest of y’all out west though.

That’s an excellent rifle. Wish they made a bonded hunting weight version.

 

[rbutcher1234]

That’s an excellent rifle. Wish they made a bonded hunting weight version.

@Formidilosus

if it existed, someone could convince me to bond it in a rokstok if they’re as good as people say they are

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus

if it existed, someone could convince me to bond it in a rokstok if they’re as good as people say they are

Haha. I might bond an MRC into one.

 

[Dave0317]

Awesome info, thanks.

I like the feel/function of a CRF a lot, so it’s good to know I don’t need to rule it out when I look at putting together a more all-purpose western rifle in the future.

But at the same time, I’ll still be making a Tikka .223 my next rifle purchase. I don’t think a CRF exists that gives the off the shelf accuracy, sub $1K price, and all the other advantages of a Tikka.

I thought the CFR vs PF discussion was dead, and it either didn’t matter, or PF was just simply reliable enough and usually more accurate at a given price range, so I hadn’t considered CRF in a long time. Maybe a topic worth revisiting in more depth some time.

 

[Formidilosus]

But at the same time, I’ll still be making a Tikka .223 my next rifle purchase. I don’t think a CRF exists that gives the off the shelf accuracy, sub $1K price, and all the other advantages of a Tikka.

Correct, there is nothing that competes with a T3x now.

I thought the CFR vs PF discussion was dead, and it either didn’t matter,

It pretty much is, and it doesn’t really matter. As long as both/either is designed and built correctly.

or PF was just simply reliable enough and usually more accurate at a given price range, so I hadn’t considered CRF in a long time. Maybe a topic worth revisiting in more depth some time.

For me, it’s more about that if I want a new rifle there really only is Tikka or newer Sako’s, Blaser, Sauer. There isn’t a single factory or custom American made action/rifle that competes with those when taken as a whole for a field rifle. Maybe an American made CRF that is reliable and takes prefits could change that.

 

[Dobermann]

wth?! Takin shots early! I am more of a Heidi Klum guy anyway

I included you because out of all the people on the Slide, I figured you and Ryan could take it.

But now you've done it - the CRF vs PF posts will now be competing with Kate Beckinsale vs Heidi Klum posts ...

 

[fwafwow]

I included you because out of all the people on the Slide, I figured you and Ryan could take it.

But now you've done it - the CRF vs PF posts will now be competing with Kate Beckinsale vs Heidi Klum posts ...

Bring it!

EDIT - probably violates rules though.

 

[Ryan Avery]

The real question is probably not which of us find Kate Beckinsale hot, but which of us would Kate Beckinsale find hot.

Pretty sure me, @fwafwow, and @Ryan Avery would be out of the running ...

You underestimate my charisma… I’m pretty sure I could make you find me hot….

She’s a liberal so there’s no real chance anyways


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[mtnwrunner]

You underestimate my charisma… I’m pretty sure I could make you find me hot….

She’s a liberal so there’s no real chance anyways


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Damn, what a waste of whiskey. I just threw up.

 

[Randonee]

Quick question for you who were on the course with variable scopes
Did you change power much to suit the situation and targets
And obviously what sort of magnification were you mostly using?

I tried to change mine quite a bit on day 1 depending on what I was seeing. Then a person yelled at me to stop. And yelled at me again to stop. And maybe even again to stop. I couldn’t help myself and continued to adjust the magnification. Then the same person put it on 7x and taped up the scope so it couldn’t be adjusted. Then I forgot about the mag of the scope and freed my mind to concentrate more on shooting, and quite happily finished the course on 7x. I can’t believe he did that to me… tough love!

 

[Tanya Avery]

Not even respectfully- she’s just wrong.




Probably for the first and last in our life, you get to talk smack about how a Bergara ran better than some Tikkas…

You’re wrong! But it is/was a close call. Both are beautiful, and NONE of you would pass up a chance with either one so that discussion was ridiculous anyway. My turn now: Who wants to weigh in on Chris Hemsworth vs. Ryan Reynolds? Thor for sure, but Ryan is a close 2nd!!

 

[mt terry d]

I tried to change mine quite a bit on day 1 depending on what I was seeing. Then a person yelled at me to stop. And yelled at me again to stop. And maybe even again to stop. I couldn’t help myself and continued to adjust the magnification. Then the same person put it on 7x and taped up the scope so it couldn’t be adjusted. Then I forgot about the mag of the scope and freed my mind to concentrate more on shooting, and quite happily finished the course on 7x. I can’t believe he did that to me… tough love!

You may be pleased to hear I reported him to HR.

 

[ruger35]

Just read through the whole thread after starting from the initial post today. As a flatlander (from Louisiana), I have a couple of questions.

1. What gear as far as backpacks/hiking is required for the class and the hunt?
2. I see most people are bringing 223 for the class, or people hunting with that also or swapping to something like a 6.5prc/magnum?
3. Has anyone done the class with a Zeus QC and just swapped barrels over to your hunting rifle for a couple hundred rounds as mentioned?

Thanks for any advice for a first time class goer/bear hunter. I’m a member of a 1k yard range here but really need to practice more and get away from all of my near 20lb chassis builds.

 

[Dobermann]

You underestimate my charisma… I’m pretty sure I could make you find me hot….

She’s a liberal so there’s no real chance anyways


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I'll give you charisma, humour, hard working, and patient with all of us. But I've seen the "man spread in short shorts" photo ... and I'm too scared of Tanya!