Shoot2Hunt University

[Ryan Avery]

We just completed the first abbreviated Shoot2Hunt class. This will be a thread where students can give their feedback.

 

[T_Widdy]

The class was PACKED with information! There is no way I’m remembering it all and will be taking the 5 day class next year along with refreshing up when the online class comes out. Ryan and Jake were great with questions and help during shooting but Form was our main coach. He is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to shooting, hunting, reading shooting terrain/ situations and repairing failed guns and equipment.



Day 1 was dialing in the fundamentals of proper shot execution, mainly prone and the importance of a squaring up to the target, breath control, trigger control and then prep and be ready for another shot. Day 1 is a lot of shooting and it really helps drive the base fundamentals into you to prepare for day 2 of positional shooting.



Day 2 was confirming zero, shooting from different positions and I really learned a lot how to execute good shots from not as steady positions which leads to more shot opportunities on game. We then went and shot further distance shots and learned proper communication between shooter and spotter, some terminal ballistic information on different bullets and the quick drop and wind bracket system for mill scopes.



Day 3 was shooting in the mountains with what we learned the previous days. Working with your spotter and learning wind calling at various distances. It was an extremely fun day and felt good to put the previous days training to work! The 5 day class with more of this training will really make you more proficient, that’s why I’m coming back.



We had a few hiccups during the days with some of our personal guns but they helped get things figured out, I was able to try and compare my rifles with the class rental guns and Forms and I’m not trying to sell for Jake, Ryan or Form but their guns just work! They shoot better, are more comfortable and reliable. We shot around 500 rounds in 3 days and it shows what holds up. Needless to say I have some changes coming to my equipment



The class and all the guys at this training made for great week! It was a blast, fun, but down to business also. I wish the class lasted 3 weeks! Our accommodations were great along with the food!



If your wanting to come to the class bring more ammo than recommended and I would suggest renting one of the trainer guns also, even if just for a day so you can compare the differences. I learned a lot and will be coming back!

 

[Bluumoon]

First thing first. Thank you to everyone who put this together. This was a stellar experience.

We hit the ground running Sunday evening, ahead of scheduled start Monday AM. This was good. We tested rifles, covered safety, and shot under headlights ( w regular scopes, no illumination needed).

Day “one” was leaning the shot process one step a time and laying a foundation to build on. Day two was positional shooting. Day three was into the field to learn some basic team communications, target acquisition, and shooting in some wind.

Students are encouraged to bring tikkas/Sako rifles with drip tested scopes because they work. To work they also have to be assembled correctly, I failed at this part on one of the rifles I brought. All but one screw was degreased, loctited, and tourqued to spec. Guess which one failed.

You won’t be berated for bringing non Rokslide specials ie Rem 700s, non drop tested scopes, second focal plane, or moa scopes. This is a self correcting problem. You’ll be looking to grab a rental rifle before you are halfway through day 1.

I’ve never taken a shooting course, but shot more than most. This is a break it all back down and start from scratch, beginner and “experts” alike will learn if they are willing to look at what is in front of their face.

My only complaint is I wish I could have done the full five days. Maybe add the front end Sunday as a full day.

The hosts of the event Absaroka Beartooth outfitters were gracious hosts and great bear hunting guides with amazing land access. The food was outstanding as was the company.

Unknown Munitions brought a ton of sweet rifles and some gear. If I wasn’t a cheap bastard a 6mm CM would have followed me home. I will have one.

Playing w nice range finding binos will cost you a couple grand.

Bring more than 500 rounds of ammo for 5 days. I would lean closer to 1k. If possible test ammo before committing to 1k rounds, rifles can be picky even Tikkas.

Suppressed .223 is what you want for the week. Rent one from Jake if you don’t want to commit.

We shot 11 hrs a day and did classes till midnight each day. You’ll live. I would suggest having shade/rain structures set up . Ie 10x10 canopies with weighted 5 gallon buckets at corners in case of rain or severe heat.

Don’t be afraid to sign up on your own, you’ll find good people there.

 

[Nine Banger]

I'm still fired up about this class.

I learned so much in 3 days. Form is a great shooting instructor and cares deeply about the subject matter and his students.

I too could have happily continued (and will) with the 5-day class and beyond.

Thank you everyone for putting this opportunity together. My mind is blown. Everything is different. I'm a new shooter.

Thank you to Absaroka Beartooth Outfitters. What a great place to stay, shoot and hunt. Everyone is friendly, helpful and committed to our experience. This group is special.

I thought it was brilliant to move from the class directly to hunting. I had a great time hunting with my fellow students. We formed a cohesive team during class and then put everything to work immediately during the hunt.

When I arrived, my experience level was limited to pounding steel at 200 yards and feeling uncomfortable in my tree stand looking at animals 300 yards out. After 3 days of class I confidently pursued and harvested game at 411 yards. That would have been impossible without this instruction.

Jump on this opportunity if you can and grow as a shooter. You won't regret it.

 

[Randonee]

I very much agree with the great write-ups by my fellow coursemates, so I’ll try to not repeat what they’ve already said.

Overall: At the end of the 3-day class, I immediately signed up for next year's 5-day class.

The people: For any intense course like this, the primary key to its success boils down to the people. I really enjoyed being around Form, Ryan and Jake. They’re funny, interesting and smart. And I can tell you first hand they’re doing Shoot2Hunt because they have a passion for helping others, elevating the skills of hunters, and figuring out robust and effective techniques and equipment. Their sole focus over the three days was our personal learning and improvement. If a student didn’t get something (and I didn’t get A LOT of things the first, or second time...) Form would figure out a way to fix the issue. Form is a truly exceptional teacher! I’m going to say that again, Form is a truly exceptional teacher! I also want to say I very much enjoyed being with the other students, who were all super great guys. I also appreciate their help and all that I learned from them as well. You know you’re with the right group when you’re learning something from everyone around you.

The class: My takeaway is that its mission is to create skilled rifle-people for the purpose of effectively and cleanly harvesting game in the real world, under real world scenarios, and with real world time constraints.

What I learned: I learned I was absolutely terrible at the above! I also learned I can improve and become substantially better in just three days. As importantly, I learned what and how I need to practice (on a regular basis) to continue to improve, and how to measure my progress.

Gear: Gear is actually a pretty big deal for this class. You need gear that doesn’t fail/break, is accessible quickly, and is effective. Given that, I wouldn’t buy much new stuff until you’ve attended the class. There’s a lot of gear around for you to borrow/test, and some items you can purchase if you find you like using them (things like front/rear bags). The main thing is to not buy something you think will be useful for the class, then find out pretty quickly it’s actually something you’d not use. With that being said, here is my list of what I think is perhaps not mandatory, but at least on the edge of mandatory. Many of these are things I didn’t personally own so I ended up renting or or buying them from Unknown Munitions on-site. There’s no salesmanship or pitches from them, but you’ll probably decide on your own you want them. 1) 223 rife; 2) 200 rounds ammo day; 3) Mil scope that is a proven, durable model (moa could maybe work for the class but you’ll very much regret it - this is coming from an moa only guy; 4) a suppressor (you really can’t shoot that much around other folks without one); 5) lots of magazines, and your rifle should use magazines - the class is fast paced and it’s a bit hard to just keep up with loading them; 6) knee pads either inside pants or built into pants; 7) sun shirt with a hood and sunscreen. This isn’t gear, but if you, like me, aren’t a fairly flexible person, start doing some stretches to help getting into shooting positions like seated cross-legged and such.


Is the class for you? You need to want to learn and have an open mind. You’ll probably (maybe not everyone, but probably most) find yourself stripped down to almost nothing as a hunting-focused shooter, and shown what your existing, true capabilities are. You need to be okay with that. You’ll soon be put back together in a better way, but you nevertheless need to be able accept the truth about yourself and happily move on. The class is also fairly demanding. You probably won’t get enough sleep. You won’t have many breaks. You need to focus just on the class while there and work hard.

Absaroka Beartooth Outfitters: Great people, comfortable accommodations, and excellent food. First rate and an important component to the overall class!

 

[NevadaMike]

Pretty bummed I had to drop out of the June class! Now my schedule has cleared and class is unsurprisingly sold out.

 

[Formidilosus]

Finally getting around to this.

This was a good group is guys who were good sports about things.

I’m going to use this/these as sort of a record of what is seen during courses. This is useful because it offers a much broader picture than a single point of reference, and it is encompassing because you are seeing different people and equipment used side by side in real use.


Notes of the shooters:

Overall this group on average is what has shown to be very high in the normal population and about average for “serious” shooters. That means that they could zero and use their rifle with no help (of some level) understood how to zero (of some level), and could shoot with no major failures in basic functional handling.

One had paid attention and applied as much as he could from posts here and elsewhere and it showed. He still had some holes in technique, but general ability and gun handling was obviously above the others.


Equipment:

A range of rifles and scopes. We had 3 out of 5 people start with MOA scopes. 2x Leupold scopes, 4x SWFA’s, and 2x Mavens- there were a couple others that I didn’t note. Two Remington based custom in a chassis. One a DTA. And three with Tikkas of various versions.


Observed shooter issues:

The usual- body positions generally were poor. Small to medium issues with gunhandling both “safety” and speed. Recoil anticipation. Inability to build a consistent position and rebuild it, etc., etc.

Multiple issues with too much magnification and inability to find the target in during times events.

All but one shooter had basically no ability to get shots off/get decent shots off in time during the hunting rifle drill.

Massive issues from all in grouping and POI when having to build the position for each shot, and then brake it to start again.

The 10 round untimed, prone groups were average- that is 2.5-5 MOA, and not centered. Despite what people of the internet say, laughably few people can lay down and put 10 rounds in a 2 MOA dot at 100 yards on demand.

All but two people stated that they felt comfortable, and would shoot a deer between 400 and 600’ish yards, one said 700 yards, and one said 200 yards. Every person would have missed an 8” target at 200 yards with at least one of their first 10 prone untimed shots.



Observed equipment issues:

A Tikka trigger that was removed for a barrel swap was loose and caused the firing pin to be released when closing the action- tightening it up stopped it. This is not unusual- don’t screw with factory Tikka triggers. Adding a lighter spring, unscrewing the trigger housing, etc all greatly increase the probability of issues.
Adjust them to the lightest setting from factory and that’s it. If you have removed it, take it apart, degrease, thread lock, and tighten- tight.


Lots/most stocks and barrels were not sufficiently free-floated and had intermittent contact causing grouping issues- you want to be able to throw a dead cat through the gap.

There were a few action/scope screws that came loose, causing loss of zero.

The DTA was a 223 conversion and would not eject about 50% of the time. As well, it grouped very poorly for the shooter. He eventually switched to my rifle and performance was as expected.


DTA-


A little over 24 hours later with my T3, 20 rounds-





2x (maybe 3) scopes failed. One was the Eval March 1.5-15x that I was using- the SFP and FFP reticles “de collimated”, and it had a point of impact shift of .4 mil left. The second, and possibly third scope as well- was a Leupold with a wandering 2’ish MOA zero from car rides, plus random shifts while shooting. This went away with a scope swap.

The custom action (M700 based) rifle shot well, but had bad bolt bind (as they all do) and the shooter had to modify his technique to run it successfully- he was slower and more problem proned regardless. This went away when he used one of our Tikkas for a while.

A suppressor adapter was contacting the first baffle on one rifle and causing a POI shift when the barrel heated up. A spacer corrected the issue.



I believe that is the gist of the main issues noted. None of those are surprising at all, and they happen in all user communities. Overall this group of guys were good and above average. Each had some issues to work through, but generally learned and applied corrections…. Though they did respond to harassment more than most. shrug




The main takeaways are-

Solid rifle that is reliable and doesn’t bolt bind assembled correctly.

Chassis suck for all around field shooting.

Scopes that have a very low probability of failure. Mil/mil with properly designed FFP reticle is the way.

Somewhere between 6-8x is the most used and appropriate magnification for shooting even to very long ranges given all factors.

Recoil matters. The less the gun recoils and the less muzzle blast and noise there is, the better shooting that happens, the more people can shoot, the more they see their own impacts, and the more they learn from every shot. This is a feedback loop that exaggerates the more it is done.

Fast twist, properly setup 223’s with good bullets are the single greatest teaching and shooting aid that exists. All brought 223’s for use for practice but only one was planing to/willing to use it on the bear hunt. All brought larger cartridges and calibers- most were magnums and they were adamant that they were going to use those for the hunt. By the end of the 3 days, everyone but one chose their 223 for the hunt, and the one stated he didn’t due to a lack of hunting ammo for it.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Picked up lots of steel for the S2HU classes next month.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[philcox]

The main takeaways are-
…
Chassis suck for all around field shooting.

@Formidilosus Can you elaborate? Seems like it would be no diff than a more flat-bottom stock…

 

[SDHNTR]

Kneepads? I’m out! Not my kinda party.

 

[wind gypsy]

I’m surprised with that DTA shooting that poorly. Was it a SAC conversion? I had srs-A1 and it shot everything that touched it well in a couple different conversions.

They were accurate and short but a compromise in most every other regard.

 

[wind gypsy]

Kneepads? I’m out! Not my kinda party.

I’m sure you can find a class where you just shoot from benches and shooting mats..

 

[JohnJohnson]

The custom action (M700 based) rifle shot well, but had bad bolt bind (as they all do) and the shooter had to modify his technique to run it successfully

Out of curiosity which brand of custom 700 action was it? Or do you mean it was just a trued factory R700?

 

[SloppyJ]

Looking at the 2025 classes. The second class is more expensive than the first, is there a reason for this or just different lovation that impacted price? I couldn't find any differences in the two listings.

 

[fwafwow]

The class was PACKED with information! There is no way I’m remembering it all and will be taking the 5 day class next year along with refreshing up when the online class comes out.

Anyone know when the online class will be available?

 

[crich]

Looking at the 2025 classes. The second class is more expensive than the first, is there a reason for this or just different lovation that impacted price? I couldn't find any differences in the two listings.

I emailed UM they are moving to a new ranch and expenses went up significantly. Better accommodations as well and all the shooting scenarios are centrally located so there's no driving back and forth.

Fwiw I'm signed up for that class.

 

[SloppyJ]

I emailed UM they are moving to a new ranch and expenses went up significantly. Better accommodations as well and all the shooting scenarios are centrally located so there's no driving back and forth.

Fwiw I'm signed up for that class.

Sounds like it might be worth it. Thanks for answering my question. I'm still mulling it around but for a week long class, that sounds reasonable and the feedback from this thread definitely speaks volumes.

 

[T_Widdy]

Sounds like it might be worth it. Thanks for answering my question. I'm still mulling it around but for a week long class, that sounds reasonable and the feedback from this thread definitely speaks volumes.

It’s worth it for sure! Plus it’s a lot of fun! I can’t wait till next year already!

 

[crich]

Sounds like it might be worth it. Thanks for answering my question. I'm still mulling it around but for a week long class, that sounds reasonable and the feedback from this thread definitely speaks volumes.

Would have done either one but the later dates work better for me.

Spots are filling quick and the refund policy is good so I wouldn't think too long.

 

[SDHNTR]

I’m sure you can find a class where you just shoot from benches and shooting mats..