SG Grumman or Kuiu Super Down Pro

[chukwithak]

The SG is hands down more durable than the Kuiu. I’ve had both. Aside from losing down all the time from the Kuiu, the outer fabric tears easier on the Kuiu.

You talking about the LT or the Pro? The pro seems tougher than the Grumman.

 

[Shooter264]

You talking about the LT or the Pro? The pro seems tougher than the Grumman

Don’t have an experience with the LT. My comparison was to the pro. I just got back from a Mountain goat hunt in BC where I took a new pro. Ended up tearing it 2x on the trip. I’m several trips in with the Grumman and have yet to tear a hole in the coat. I’ve had a couple of the Grumman’s and a couple Pro’s and the SG’s have held up better for me. Others mileage may vary, that’s just been my experience. I have a lot of clothes from each company so not trying to bash one over the other.

 

[jbwright]

I just watched a PNW video and they said that they changed the sizing and the exterior fabric. . I've just looked at the new version so maybe that's what the deal is.

You referring to the SDP or the Grumman here? Had a grumman 2 yrs ago and thought the M would fit. I'm 6', 165 and recall the fit being a little trim for my skinny A. Wonder what size i'd be now - normally would be a large in all things sitka (and i think kuiu?) but wondering if SG switched up the sizing in the last 2 yrs. Any insight would be helpful if y'all have any. Thanks

 

[Dr.Chill]

You referring to the SDP or the Grumman here? Had a grumman 2 yrs ago and thought the M would fit. I'm 6', 165 and recall the fit being a little trim for my skinny A. Wonder what size i'd be now - normally would be a large in all things sitka (and i think kuiu?) but wondering if SG switched up the sizing in the last 2 yrs. Any insight would be helpful if y'all have any. Thanks

I'm 6'3 165, so very similar build to you. Just bought the Grumman jacket in a L in the new Tarmac colorway and it's definitely the best size. Plenty of room underneath for up to 3 layers and the arms would be just too short in a medium. Might recommend the L for you

 

[jbwright]

I'm 6'3 165, so very similar build to you. Just bought the Grumman jacket in a L in the new Tarmac colorway and it's definitely the best size. Plenty of room underneath for up to 3 layers and the arms would be just too short in a medium. Might recommend the L for you

Man, that's awesome to read. I placed an order yesterday for a large in Tarmac too! How's the gut fit you? Is is really baggy or b/c you're taller it's not as much an issue? What's your thought?

 

[jbwright]

I also called SG yesterday and there wouldn't have been a change in the sizing since a couple years ago (Jan '22 to be exact) when I tried on the other Grumman jacket. Medium fit ok, but really only room underneath for a light base layer and a fleece/mid layer like the Helio. But that's it. Looking forward to seeing if the L fits better.

 

[Dr.Chill]

Man, that's awesome to read. I placed an order yesterday for a large in Tarmac too! How's the gut fit you? Is is really baggy or b/c you're taller it's not as much an issue? What's your thought?

It's a tad baggy in the stomach, but not too bad. The permanently elasticized waist helps keep it kinda streamlined and it gives you the room to be able to have a base layer, mid layer (like a Helio or Sitka Heavyweight hoody) and even a third layer (aerolite vest, ambient hoody, Atom LT, etc) underneath without being too tight. I like how SG cuts the chest wider than the waist (fits an athletic male V shaped torso) which allows for this kind of layering. Lmk if you have experience with the Grumman pants...ordered a M but have a sense they might be too short/trim

 

[jbwright]

I'm 6'3 165, so very similar build to you. Just bought the Grumman jacket in a L in the new Tarmac colorway and it's definitely the best size. Plenty of room underneath for up to 3 layers and the arms would be just too short in a medium. Might recommend the L for you

It's a tad baggy in the stomach, but not too bad. The permanently elasticized waist helps keep it kinda streamlined and it gives you the room to be able to have a base layer, mid layer (like a Helio or Sitka Heavyweight hoody) and even a third layer (aerolite vest, ambient hoody, Atom LT, etc) underneath without being too tight. I like how SG cuts the chest wider than the waist (fits an athletic male V shaped torso) which allows for this kind of layering. Lmk if you have experience with the Grumman pants...ordered a M but have a sense they might be too short/trim

Dude we’re on the same wavelength on ordering. I ordered a M pant in the brown with the jacket yesterday, should get the early next week. I’ll keep y’all posted on sizing. I fluctuate b/t a 31-32” waist, athletic build, and envision wearing these under or over the DH’s and a baselayer NTS. Will provide fit info when I get ‘em.

 

[Dr.Chill]

Got my Grumman Pants today and wanted to provide detailed sizing info to hopefully help anyone else like me who might be between sizes.

Measurements:
6'3, 165-170 lbs, 31-32" waist. Size 11 boots Tall/lean/athletic build

What I'm wearing:
Mid-weight merino bottoms
Sitka Timberline pants w knee pads (32T)
One foot - Stormfront Gaiter + Kenetrek 400 (11)
Other foot - Schnee's Hunter II 16" (11)
Long sleeve T-shirt
Atom LT (M)
Grumman Jacket (L)
Grumman Pants (M)

Grumman Pant Fit:
I ordered a M based on my waist measurements relative to SGs size chart (which shows a M = 33"+). At 6'3, I'm used to puffy pants usually being a few inches too short in my typical waist size, and these are no different.The waist on the M Grumman pants is right on the money, perfect, and the fit is accommodating of layers and mobility (but not too baggy) down to about the knee. However, the fit is very trim from the knee down, almost skinny jean-esque. Pros: lighter weight, less material to snag/brush when moving, thermally efficient. Cons: can be a tight fit over late season footwear (see for over Schnee's Pac boot), can compress the down over the calf/ankle area and result in reduced insulation (this happened to some baffles over the Pac boot, and I have small calves/ankles to begin). However, I'll be sticking with the M, as the L would be 1) heavier, 2) likely too loose in the waist, 3) too much excess material in hip/thigh, 4) not lay as cleanly under the Grumman jacket, which has a narrow waist hem to begin.

I wanted to compare the Grumman fit (M) to my tried and true First Lite Uncompahgre pants (also M), which I've used extensively the past 4 years. I wasn't sure if the Grumman's were significantly slimmer than I was used to or not. From the fit standpoint, they are nearly identical. The Uncompahgre might even be a touch trimmer in the lower leg, as you can see how tight a fit it is over the Schnee's Pac boot. While both can zip completely off, zippers on the Uncompahgre are a bit smoother and manageable than the Grumman. The Velcro on the lower cuff of the Grumman was one extra step. One design flaw I noticed in the Grumman = no button fly. The Uncompahgre has this and it's so much easier to simply zip down the fly, zip legs up and slide the pants on/off right over boots. The Grumman you pretty much have to completely disconnect at least one side to take on/off. Not sure why SG opted for this design, as a simply button clasp would be a trivial weight addition but greatly improved the functionality. From a warmth perspective, I did not test both outside yet, but the Grumman feels a little warmer, and a bit lighter.

Last, I threw my Dewpoint rain gear (L jacket; LT pants) over all the layers to check fit, and pleased to say the layering was perfect. Plenty of mobility and no perceptible down compression.

In sum, I would say the pants run a bit trim but def pick the size that corresponds to your waist. Grumman jacket is somewhat trim too, but I sized up to L for added layering capability, and for the needed sleeve length for my arms - it was the right choice. The L jacket also "stacks" nicely over the M Grumman pants, and doesn't bunch up on top of them. Overall, definitely kinda delicate material, but a really warm, lightweight, and functional system overall. Hope this helps someone else in their decision process.

 

[jbwright]

For those who may struggle with sizing on the grumman, I'm 6' and 170 lbs - the Large Jacket and Medium pant are a fantastic fit, but everyone likes a diff fit on some pcs and may want diff sizing. I've found SG to fit me the best of the more "technical" brands we're all familiar with.

Pants. This past wknd I got to run the full set and the pants fit great with the DH's over the top and a hvywt merino bottom next to skin. The velcro waist is adjustable - so my pant size being in the 31/32 range was good enough to adjust slightly. As far as length, again at 6', they're about the perfect length. They hit my crispi's about right at the break.

Up top. I ran a ltwt baselayer merino, grumman jacket (L), duckworth powder hoody (L), and a heavy vest over the top for the hunt. Hoody over grumman to protect it jic. Fit was great. I'll say that the #1 thing I hate most on any long sleeve garment is sleeve length. If it's too short I don't like the fit. The L grumman jack is great fit. I don't think it's too baggy at all in the midsection either.