Separating Muzzy and Archery in Colo..

[Rich M]

Let start by saying I agree with you and I have no faith in any government agency to not turn this into a massive waste of time and money...but just for the sake of argument:

No reason it would be held at a single location on a single day. Any range could give a proficiency test, no need to charge for it either. I mean in an ideal world every rifle hunter would have the level of proficiency to get X score on an NRL Hunter style match but there's got to be a compromise between that and Bubba boomer that puts 20 rounds through his rifle all year. Would it fix stupid? No, but it would edge out some of the lazy hunters, and stupid and lazy tend to go hand in hand. If you can't put 10 rounds on a 6 inch gong at 200yds then you have no business out shooting at game. Whatever the solution, punishing bow hunters, who as far as I'm aware tend to have these kind of accidents at a SIGNIFICANTLY lower rate than firearm hunters, is not the solution.

Doing away with OTC is a pretty good place to start. Cutting NR tags in the west is a little trickier due to the majority of the public land being federal and while the game belongs to the state we do all pay for that public land, unlike places in the East where what public land there is belongs to the state.

My thing was just about making it as diff as possible cause thats what govt does. Thats all

There has to be a multifaceted approach with some common sense if thats possible.

We just got like 100 new stop everyone crosswalks cause a kid walked out in front of traffic and the driver was texting. Its overkill but someone did die.

 

[cnelk]

Orange Mask Mandate!
That should cover all the issues!

 

[Billy Goat]

Exactly and the best way to do that is reduce archery season to 2 or maybe 3 weeks if it goes back into Aug so that it’s archery only. In units way over population for bear maybe archery should be reduced to only a 2 week season to extend bear rifle seasons until objectives are met.

Seasons are designed for wildlife management or they should be, not selfish individual reasons. It’s also silly to think it’s archery season, it is rifle and ML season as much as archery. If archery hunters want no rifles or ml, they need to make a scrafice and reduce the season they get. Also the reason rifle and ml tags keep increasing is because archery hunters aren’t getting the job done and rifle/ml are better management tools.

If archery hunters weren't "getting it done" they wouldn't have taken the either sex tags away....



Population objectives are managed by female harvest.

The increases in tags and time periods are just to increase budgets.

 

[tdhanses]

If archery hunters weren't "getting it done" they wouldn't have taken the either sex tags away....



Population objectives are managed by female harvest.

The increases in tags and time periods are just to increase budgets.

So all otc tags aren’t still either sex? Also just because tags are taken away doesn’t mean it was because of archery but in reality these tags needed to be reduced way before due to calf mortality rates from predators and drops in herd numbers not admitted for many years.

I wouldn’t say tags changing from either sex to bull only had anything to due with archery success but it did limit opportunities when the herds need to grow.

Be interesting to see the archery success vs rifle/ml success stats, with a herd of over 200k elk even if archery hunters shot 10k cows a year it wouldn’t effect herd populations.

 

[Billy Goat]

So all otc tags aren’t still either sex? Also just because tags are taken away doesn’t mean it was because of archery but in reality these tags needed to be reduced way before due to calf mortality rates from predators and drops in herd numbers not admitted for manyyears.

I wouldn’t say tags changing from either sex to bull only had anything to due with archery success but it did limit opportunities when the herds need to grow.

No, many areas tags changed to bull only, as population goals were met, or over harvest was occurring.



It's been a goal to manage opportunities, harvest, and hunt quality for a long time. Why you think they have 3 rifle seasons?

 

[tdhanses]

No, many areas tags changed to bull only, as population goals were met, or over harvest was occurring.



It's been a goal to manage opportunities, harvest, and hunt quality for a long time. Why you think they have 3 rifle seasons?

Or calf survival was horrible and bear tags were increased with a price cut to try and reduce the bear damage on young calves that are the future of herd health, which also happened at the same time.

More cows equal more calves, as population goals are met you’d expect more cow tags to be available.

I completely agree with moving tags to bull only so the herds can build which will increase opportunities, harvest and hunt quality over time. For trophy areas tags will be even more limited for bulls, many of these units that have cow only tags are pretty easy to draw and have healthy herd objectives currently.

 

[Billy Goat]

Or calf survival was horrible and bear tags were increased with a price cut to try and reduce the bear damage on young calves that are the future of herd health, which also happened at the same time.

More cows equal more calves, as population goals are met you’d expect more cow tags to be available.

I completely agree with moving tags to bull only so the herds can build which will increase opportunities, harvest and hunt quality over time. For trophy areas tags will be even more limited for bulls, many of these units that have cow only tags are pretty easy to draw and have healthy herd objectives currently.

Calf survival, or development expanded and carrying capacity was decreased, which then limits hunting more. I know that's some of what happened in the SW units.



There's no easy solution, and I'm all for spring bear while it's in discussion, but I don't think it's actually on the table.

 

[tdhanses]

Calf survival, or development expanded and carrying capacity was decreased, which then limits hunting more. I know that's some of what happened in the SW units.



There's no easy solution, and I'm all for spring bear while it's in discussion, but I don't think it's actually on the table.

Local elk herds decline; Colorado Parks and Wildlife seeks solution

Hunters in Southwest Colorado say fewer elk and too many hunters in the forest have ruined their favorite outdoor experience, so Colorado Parks and Wildlife is seeking solutions and wants public input...

www.durangoherald.com

 

[tdhanses]

Calf survival, or development expanded and carrying capacity was decreased, which then limits hunting more. I know that's some of what happened in the SW units.



There's no easy solution, and I'm all for spring bear while it's in discussion, but I don't think it's actually on the table.

Thing is spring bear will never come back which sucks because it would really help.

 

[Billy Goat]

Local elk herds decline; Colorado Parks and Wildlife seeks solution

Hunters in Southwest Colorado say fewer elk and too many hunters in the forest have ruined their favorite outdoor experience, so Colorado Parks and Wildlife is seeking solutions and wants public input...

www.durangoherald.com

Thing is, I can remember the unit I hunted they were actively reducing the herd. The herd was past objectives, so you could get OTC Either sex and OTC cow tags in archery. There were a few years I shot both.

Once they hit the objectives they did away with the OTC cow, still had an OTC either sex for ten years or so. But then a few years ago it was one of the units that went to draw.

I can't remember if it was 10k or 14k estimated herd size when I was going, and I think they dropped it to estimated 6800 or so. Lots of development and conflict in the area. It's been a number of years as well so it's foggy, but I remember the reduction was pretty sizeable. Then the bear population was also exploding.

Now I doubt they really want to remember they were reducing the population 15 years ago, but they will ask for your comments on how to fix it.

Calf recruitment seems to be the biggest issue, that's partly predators, probably in a lot of areas its just human interference. Too much crowding on a lot of fronts.

 

[tdhanses]

I also think CPW downplays the effect bears have on calves, there are an est of 8-12k bears in CO, if we avg that and say on avg a bear eats 5 calves a year, that’s 50k calves a year gone. There are many studies in other states such as MT that over 5 years show that black bears were the top for calf mortality at an avg of 17% of calves killed.

 

[tdhanses]

Thing is, I can remember the unit I hunted they were actively reducing the herd. The herd was past objectives, so you could get OTC Either sex and OTC cow tags in archery. There were a few years I shot both.

Once they hit the objectives they did away with the OTC cow, still had an OTC either sex for ten years or so. But then a few years ago it was one of the units that went to draw.

I can't remember if it was 10k or 14k estimated herd size when I was going, and I think they dropped it to estimated 6800 or so. Lots of development and conflict in the area. It's been a number of years as well so it's foggy, but I remember the reduction was pretty sizeable. Then the bear population was also exploding.

Now I doubt they really want to remember they were reducing the population 15 years ago, but they will ask for your comments on how to fix it.

CPW dropped the ball plain and simple, my guess is they didn’t want to scare away NR dollars.

Now how do they plan for the wolf reintroduction, that will definitely have an impact in future years.

 

[Billy Goat]

I also think CPW downplays the effect bears have on calves, there are an est of 8-12k bears in CO, if we avg that and say on avg a bear eats 5 calves a year, that’s 50k calves a year gone. There are many studies in other states such as MT that over 5 years show that black bears were the top for calf mortality at an avg of 17% of calves killed.

See the last paragraph I added after the submit button.

 

[Billy Goat]

CPW dropped the ball plain and simple, my guess is they didn’t want to scare away NR dollars.

Colorado got roped into chasing the NR money, it's their bread and butter.

Problem is it's hitting a point that isn't sustainable.

 

[tdhanses]

Colorado got roped into chasing the NR money, it's their bread and butter.

Problem is it's hitting a point that isn't sustainable.

Change is coming, has to now for sure once wolves take ahold and they also have to keep bear populations down, NR may be bear hunting every year and every few elk and deer.

OTC will be a thing of the past, has to be, personally I think all rifle should be draw, people will have to decide to build pts or hunt.

Also they should mandate if you buy only a pref point you can’t buy an otc tag.

 

[Fatcamp]

Let start by saying I agree with you and I have no faith in any government agency to not turn this into a massive waste of time and money...but just for the sake of argument:

No reason it would be held at a single location on a single day. Any range could give a proficiency test, no need to charge for it either. I mean in an ideal world every rifle hunter would have the level of proficiency to get X score on an NRL Hunter style match but there's got to be a compromise between that and Bubba boomer that puts 20 rounds through his rifle all year. Would it fix stupid? No, but it would edge out some of the lazy hunters, and stupid and lazy tend to go hand in hand. If you can't put 10 rounds on a 6 inch gong at 200yds then you have no business out shooting at game. Whatever the solution, punishing bow hunters, who as far as I'm aware tend to have these kind of accidents at a SIGNIFICANTLY lower rate than firearm hunters, is not the solution.

Doing away with OTC is a pretty good place to start. Cutting NR tags in the west is a little trickier due to the majority of the public land being federal and while the game belongs to the state we do all pay for that public land, unlike places in the East where what public land there is belongs to the state.

I would bet 90% of big game hunters can't stack 10 rounds on a six inch plate at 200.

Including plenty on this site.

 

[Billy Goat]

I would bet 90% of big game hunters can't stack 10 rounds on a six inch plate at 200.

Including plenty on this site.

We talking freehand??


Cause fork no I can't, but I ain't much with a gun except one that scatters....

 

[Billy Goat]

Change is coming, has to now for sure once wolves take ahold and they also have to keep bear populations down, NR may be bear hunting every year and every few elk and deer.

OTC will be a thing of the past, has to be.

I'm in the boat of every few years now. I had some good times OTC, but I'm going low points for a while til that gets out of hand.

Then, who knows what.

 

[tdhanses]

I would bet 90% of big game hunters can't stack 10 rounds on a six inch plate at 200.

Including plenty on this site.

I would agree 100% with that, doesn’t matter the weapon, many archery hunters can’t hit a 6” target at 40 yds when an animals infront of them.

 

[tdhanses]

I'm in the boat of every few years now. I had some good times OTC, but I'm going low points for a while til that gets out of hand.

Then, who knows what.

Many units that are 0-1, I won’t say I’m done otc because my property is in an otc unit but i’ve yet to hunt it. I also mainly only hunt ML and Archery, did burn pts in a rifle unit 2 yrs ago.

If they changed everything to draw i bet it would still be easy to draw with 0pts for a long time.